D&D 5E Is the Tarrasque tough enough?

Derren said:

As I have said in the preview, a guy with a flying carpet and lots and lots of alchemist fire would be enough to kill the Tarrasque.

Or send a single clay golem after it. Big Ts can only run away then.
Actually there are a lot of things in the MM which can defeat the Tarrasque.

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*Turns on sending stone receiver to get 11:00 news*
"And in other news, Waterdeep authorities arrested a man who had accumulated 1,000 vials of the controlled substance alchemists fire in his underground emergency shelter. The man was heard screaming about an 'approaching doom' as he was being taken away. Authorities were tipped off by shopkeepers who had noticed a strange pattern of purchases. We will keep you updated in the days ahead."

After being a pest for a while, the Tarrasque will be frustrated, and the clay golem will just get picked up and thrown far away where it takes damage for its fall distance. It is only immune to bludgeoning damage from non-magical, non-adamantine weapons.

Similarly, after being annoyed for a while, the Tarrasque will pick up something big and chuck it at the creature on the flying carpet. Besides which, the Tarrasque is immune to fire damage.

I agree with [MENTION=67017]Astrosicebear[/MENTION]. The only real weakness the Tarrasque has is the DM. It isn't unbeatable, but it requires a well optimized group and a lot of luck or a plot device.

Tormyr said:

*Turns on sending stone receiver to get 11:00 news*
"And in other news, Waterdeep authorities arrested a man who had accumulated 1,000 vials of the controlled substance alchemists fire in his underground emergency shelter. The man was heard screaming about an 'approaching doom' as he was being taken away. Authorities were tipped off by shopkeepers who had noticed a strange pattern of purchases. We will keep you updated in the days ahead."

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Right, because a metropolis in danger could not produce large quantities of alchemist fire (should be acid)...

After being a pest for a while, the Tarrasque will be frustrated, and the clay golem will just get picked up and thrown far away where it takes damage for its fall distance. It is only immune to bludgeoning damage from non-magical, non-adamantine weapons.

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1. Does Grapple in 5E allow for that?
2. What part of falling damage is magical or adamantine?

Similarly, after being annoyed for a while, the Tarrasque will pick up something big and chuck it at the creature on the flying carpet. Besides which, the Tarrasque is immune to fire damage.

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How can the Tarrasque do that? Its claws do not look like they have an opposable digit. So even if the Tarrasque could pick up something and even if its arm has enough dexterity to throw something in a meaningful arch its aim would be horrible.
Don't give the Tarrasque random abilities just so that it conforms your expectations formed from in earlier editions.

And my bad, it were vials of acid, not alchemist fire.

Derren said:

Objectively it has a lot of weaknesses. Low int, no ranged attack, no magical weapons (more of a problem versus other monsters than the PCs) and, compared to its previous incarnations, no regeneration.

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Understandable.


However, I think any party who went and got say clay golems or white dragons to fight the Tarrasque would be miffed when the golem or dragon got all the XP for the kill.

Derren said:

Right, because a metropolis in danger could not produce large quantities of alchemist fire...

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It was meant to be funny. Never mind that the Tarrasque is immune to fire damage and Alchemists Fire won't work. What would it look like to have enough vials of alchemists fire to burn through the hp of the Tarrasque account for all the misses from needing to make the ranged attack rolls against its AC? What would the reaction be to finding a stockpile of this size of a dangerous substance?

Derren said:

1. Does Grapple in 5E allow for that?
2. What part of falling damage is magical or adamantine?

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1. I would argue that a Gargantuan creature grappling a large or smaller creature would be able to close its hand around it. I would also argue that a Gargantuan creature would be able to throw a grappled large or smaller creature without too much difficulty. As for how far? A quarter mile or 250 yards seems like a reasonable, off the cuff distance.
2. The point was that the golem is only immune to bludgeoning damage from a weapon. Bludgeoning from falling a distance and impacting under its own weight is not a weapon and is a different matter and is different from the force imparted by swinging a weapon to damage a creature.

Derren said:

How can the Tarrasque do that? Its claws do not look like they have an opposable digit. So even if the Tarrasque could pick up something and even if its arm has enough dexterity to throw something in a meaningful arch its aim would be horrible.

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I would not have a problem giving the Tarrasque an small opposable digit, but working off of the artwork, it has 3 long fingers with claws. Try picking up something that will fit in the palm of your hand with just your middle 3 fingers. If you can do so without damaging anything, throw it across the room. It won't be as easy as using your whole hand, but it is not really difficult either. I might not give it proficiency in throwing the improvised weapon, but I will definitely have it do more than 1d4 damage, and it probably will not need proficiency after a few throws and the flying creature comes hurtling down.

Derren said:

Don't gibe the Tarrasque random abilities just so that it conforms your expectations formed from in editions.

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5e is my first edition. I do not have any expectations to carry over from previous editions. I am just a DM that is as creative as my players, and picking up and throwing something is not really something that has to be spelled out in rules, does it? Pretty much anything with hands or appendages should be able to pick up a rock and throw it (or a griffon pick up and drop it). The Tarrasque's rock just happens to be the size of a bus. Because of its low int, I wouldn't have a Tarrasque resort to throwing immediately. It would try its regular stuff first. When that turned out to be ineffective, it would get frustrated and work to remove the thing that was hurting it.

Tormyr said:

It was meant to be funny. Never mind that the Tarrasque is immune to fire damage and Alchemists Fire won't work. What would it look like to have enough vials of alchemists fire to burn through the hp of the Tarrasque account for all the misses from needing to make the ranged attack rolls against its AC? What would the reaction be to finding a stockpile of this size of a dangerous substance?

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As I said above, it should be acid. And the city itself would have huge stockpiles of them (less for acid than for alchemist fire, but there are industrial applications for it).

1. I would argue that a Gargantuan creature grappling a large or smaller creature would be able to close its hand around it. I would also argue that a Gargantuan creature would be able to throw a grappled large or smaller creature without too much difficulty. As for how far? A quarter mile or 250 yards seems like a reasonable, off the cuff distance.
2. The point was that the golem is only immune to bludgeoning damage from a weapon. Bludgeoning from falling a distance and impacting under its own weight is not a weapon and is a different matter and is different from the force imparted by swinging a weapon to damage a creature.

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There is no difference between bludgeoning damage from falling or from weapons. Unless falling damage is its own damage type immunity would protect from it.
But that doesn't matter as the Tarrasque would be unlikely to throw anything anyway. First it is not in the rules and second it is very unlikely that the claws can grasp a creature or that the arms anatomy would allow it to throw something very far or with good accuracy, so there is no reason to give it this ability in the first place.

I would not have a problem giving the Tarrasque an small opposable digit, but working off of the artwork, it has 3 long fingers with claws. Try picking up something that will fit in the palm of your hand with just your middle 3 fingers. If you can do so without damaging anything, throw it across the room. It won't be as easy as using your whole hand, but it is not really difficult either. I might not give it proficiency in throwing the improvised weapon, but I will definitely have it do more than 1d4 damage, and it probably will not need proficiency after a few throws and the flying creature comes hurtling down.

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That completely ignores the anatomical differences between bipedal (human) and quadrupled (Tarrasque) creatures. The arms of the Tarrasque are not made for throwing things with accuracy. It would be surprised if the Tarrasque could even lift its arms above its head which is a requirement to throw something upwards or in a longer arc. So hitting something with a thrown object is very unlikely. And with all those uncertainties better stick to the rules which do not give the Tarrasque a throwing attack.

Pretty much anything with hands or appendages should be able to pick up a rock and throw it (or a griffon pick up and drop it).

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Have you ever seen a cat throwing a rock after a flying bird? Can you imagine a cat doing it (and hitting)? No? But it has appendages and as much hands as the Tarrasque has.

Quartz said:

A longbow has a huge range - 150 before you get disadvantage, and 600 if you take the feat. The Tarrasque only has a speed of 40. So the archer is utterly safe.

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After it has identified the threat, the Tarrasque could move up to 140 feet per turn (40 + Dash + 3 legendary moves of 20 feet).
At 600 feet,
Round 1 archer fires. Tarrasque tries to find gnat that is hurting it.
Round 2 archer fires. Tarrasque finally notices food fling ouchies at it. It runs 140' (assuming there are two others in the party). Distance 460'.
Round 3 archer fires and moves 30'. Tarrasque moves 140'j. Distance 350'
Round 4 repeat. Distance 240'
Round 5 repeat. Distance 130'
Round 6 repeat. Distance 20'. Uh oh.
Round 7. Lunch.

From Twitter

ktkenshinx @ktkenshinx
@mikemearls If you wanted the Tarrasque to throw rocks, would you use the Improvised Weapon rules (PHB), or the Rock rules for Giants (MM).
No WiFi Mearls @mikemearls
@ktkenshinx rock rules for giants

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Quartz said:

as long as they have magic arrows.

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As long as she stays out of the way

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and doesn't run out of arrows

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Those are some pretty major assumptions, especially considering how rare magic items are in 5E. There's no telling if magical arrows even exist, let alone a 11th level person getting 150+ of them. This archer also has to save against its frightful presence, outrun it (it has a 40ft speed and can move half its speed on other people's rounds), and out survive it, because a single attack of the Tarrasque would probably get close to killing the 20th level archer as well.

Edit: Ninja'd by a million people.

Tormyr said:

After it has identified the threat, the Tarrasque could move up to 140 feet per turn (40 + Dash + 3 legendary moves of 20 feet).
At 600 feet,
Round 1 archer fires. Tarrasque tries to find gnat that is hurting it.
Round 2 archer fires. Tarrasque finally notices food fling ouchies at it. It runs 140' (assuming there are two others in the party). Distance 460'.
Round 3 archer fires and moves 30'. Tarrasque moves 140'j. Distance 350'
Round 4 repeat. Distance 240'
Round 5 repeat. Distance 130'
Round 6 repeat. Distance 20'. Uh oh.
Round 7. Lunch.

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Why would there be 2 others in the combat (btw. that is a silliy mechanic anyway)? Why wouldn't they form a triangle around it and attack it from all sides with longbows? Why wouldn't the archer move away from the Tarrasque when it comes closer?

Derren said:

There is no difference between bludgeoning damage from falling or from weapons. Unless falling damage is its own damage type immunity would protect from it.

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Damage from falling is not damage from a weapon.

The Tarrasque is not immune to all bludgeoning damage as you are assuming.

It is immune to bludgeoning damage from non-magical weapons. You are giving it a greater immunity than it has. The ground is not considered or listed as a weapon, even an improvised one (improvised weapons are ones you can hold in one or two hands, the attacker is not holding the planet in one or two hands when his foe falls).