D&D 5E Dungeonscape no more?

I don't think we can necessarily infer from a 4-year lifespan that 4E was profitable. Throwing good money after bad is a time-honored tradition in corporate America (and everywhere else, really -- I think it has to do with the way we as a species perceive risk).

Bugleyman said:

I was a 4E converter. I subsequently felt very burned by the collapse of the character visualizer, the game table, etc. and the pulling of the PDFs. And now, WotC seems to be repeating all the same mistakes. It's very frustrating, really...I want to support D&D, but they have to sell the products I want to buy.

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I can empathize with the feeling of being burned, but I also see from the perspective of those who are saying that if WotC ultimately didn't like the direction this was going, it's better to cut off the partnership now. What gets me is that, unlike the TDT folks, WotC has told us nothing at all about their plans, and they're clearly coming up with new ones. Let's face it, if TDT hadn't done such a good job of being (somewhat) transparent about what they were doing and where they were in the process, we'd have absolutely nothing to talk about because we'd know nothing at all. Maybe some people would rather have it that way (after all, you can't be let down much if no promises were ever made); but I for one would like some idea of what to expect.

And I've seen a number of posts in these past 19 pages that say people should "just throw money at..." but all indications I've seen are that WotC hasn't devoted any resources to this. Maybe that's a false conception, but it's what the comment about internal funding seems to imply. So, aside from making a deal to call DungeonScape the official tool, and plans to split profits (which have fallen through), WotC has made no move that we know of regarding digital tools, whatsoever.

As others have said previously, this turn of events is probably not a complete shock, in the "maybe we should have seen it coming" sense, since it was mentioned during the video a few weeks back that web developers had left due to money issues. I won't engage in speculation as to why or how these issues came to be, but I'll just say again, it's too bad.

And I think people who want digital tools have a right to be asking WotC some serious questions. I hope they had plans beyond distribution through DungeonScape (as much as I like the product and the TDT team); I seriously hope they're not starting from square one. (Though, I'll reiterate that if ultimately they felt they were going to have to restart from square one, sooner is better than later --- the vestigial limb metaphor made earlier was on point). But they sure have been quite about all this.

Bugleyman said:

Trust me, posts that begin "no offense, but you're a liar" do make me question my choice of hobbies.

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I just learned that I can't both give experience and laugh at a post. It's a combination of the hobby and the web forums; really. People have to make a particular effort to be sensitive to each other on web forums, and sadly we gamers don't have a particular reputation for excelling in that skill.

For what it's worth, you and Mistwell were in complete disagreement, and I agree with both of you. C'est la vie.

I believe they cut ties because the interest was not there. The reward justifies the risk.

Trust me...I don't play Pathfinder because I like the mechanics. If it were just about mechanics, I'd be playing 13th Age. Or Savage Worlds. It's just so much easier to find Pathfinder game, and the organized play is very accessible. And, unlike 5E, I don't have to lug 50+ lbs of hardbacks around.

Who knows? If this causes WotC to shift direction and release PDFs, then it could ultimately be a good thing (at least from my point of view).

SigmaOne said:

I just learned that I can't both give experience and laugh at a post. It's a combination of the hobby and the web forums; really. People have to make a particular effort to be sensitive to each other on web forums, and sadly we gamers don't have a particular reputation for excelling in that skill.

For what it's worth, you and Mistwell were in complete disagreement, and I agree with both of you. C'est la vie.

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Thanks. I'm sure he/she and I would get along great in person, but, well...Internet. It doesn't help that I have a (self-judged) charisma of 8.

designbot said:

I'd like to see WotC create an official digital ruleset (as an XML file or database or web service or whatever) that they would keep up-to-date (sort of like D&D Insider)—basically converting all the rules into machine-readable calculations—and then open up access to anyone who wants to develop tools that work with it.

They could either charge developers to license access, or make it free for developers and charge users—you'd need an authentication token from WotC to use any of the websites or apps that access the official rules.

If somebody copies the ruleset without authorization, they can shut them down with copyright claims, like they do already. Trying to make piracy impossible through obscurity or DRM is a complete waste of time.

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I've been saying this for years. ("Free for developers, charge users" is definitely the way to go. The developers are already generating value for WotC by supporting their product.) Wizards, and TSR before it, has never done well with electronic support, yet fans have created all kinds of cool and useful tools; so why not let us do the work, and reap the profit?

Bugleyman said:

And, unlike 5E, I don't have to lug 50+ lbs of hardbacks around.

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Are you carrying 10 copies of the PHB with you?

Bugleyman said:

I was a 4E converter. I subsequently felt very burned by the collapse of the character visualizer, the game table, etc. and the pulling of the PDFs. And now, WotC seems to be repeating all the same mistakes. It's very frustrating, really...I want to support D&D, but they have to sell the products I want to buy.

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And I stopped buying 4e content when they dropped support for PDFs.

I broke down and have been buying the core books in 5e, because that's the game I run with my players, but I would *muuuuuch* prefer to buy PDFs and the lack of PDFs will definitely be a disinsentive to purchasing additional titles beyond the big 3.

Boarstorm said:

Are you carrying 10 copies of the PHB with you?

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I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that it won't take long to reach 50lbs. It didn't in 4E. Or 3.5. Or 3rd.

It could be different this time, but I'm not holding my breath.