Dragonlance Dragonlance Reflected in D&D5

DMZ2112 said:

I'm still not really comfortable about telling players, "You can specialize in this kind of magic or be this alignment, but not both." The elephant in the room here is evocation. There are no white robed war wizards? That poses all kinds of questions.

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In previous editions, Wizards who specializes in Evocation or Conjuration could be any of the three colors. Black robes were Necromancy and Enchantment, Red robes were Illusion and Transmutation, and White robes were Divination or Abjuration. There may have been restrictions on those who wished to take the prestige class, though that was up to the DM.

To be honest? I would strongly reccomend you keep the knight orders and wizards as nothing more than backgrounds or a feat choice at most. Designing a bunch of subclasses is a large time investment and frankly doesnt even accomplish much in terms of actual gain for the game. If you really feel the need to restrict stuff, do the following:
Crown knights: any fighter
Sword knights: cleric domains geared towards battle, valor/glamour bards, and divine sorcerers
Rose knights: Paladins, Cavalier fighters, purple dragon knights

As for races? Tieflings dont exist in dragonlance if we're being restrictive. I use them for Irda, which are basically just "fallen" magical ogre titans. The tiefling stats work well. For minotaur or half ogres I use either goliath stats or the minotaur race from UA (the more recent one is quite balanced). Gully dwarves work well as normal dwarves, but I gave them a subrace that gives them the goblin hide ability, and kobold begging ability, let them choose prisoner's lif as a dwarven tool option, and gave them disadvantage on all int checks and saves. It balances out fairly well.

That said, I once again point out that post war of souls is an objectively better place to set a campaign in the setting. The war of the lance is too well documented and rigid a time, is incredibly restrictive in terms of what classes/races are available (strictly speaking sorcerers, tieflings, warlocks, bards, rangers, arcane tricksters, and a number of other races shouldn't exist during that time period), and is frankly a very dated time for the setting in terms of just how long it's been since the original trilogy came out; at best it will come off incredibly cheesy and hokey a setting, and at worst your players will feel second fiddle to the "true cannon" heroes. And that doesnt even cover the fact that a war of the lance game only has like one possible villain as an option: Takhisis and her armies. Like it or not, the Age of Mortals made the setting function on a modern gaming level and gave the DM a plethora of better options for story fodder.

Something they did end up doing with the wizards in 3e was that instead of specialising you could be a generalist wizard of any of the orders. A background might be the way to go.

Eric Bienvenue said:

Hi Raunalyn,

I would really like to see your note on the Knight of the Crown as I am working on a DL game where a Knight will be the main character. so if you can share you info, that would be great

Eric

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Eric, I doubt Raunalyn is still monitoring this thread three years on -- you might want to try a private message, if the information about his Knight of the Crown subclass build he provided on page one of this thread is insufficient.

MostlyHarmless42 said:

That said, I once again point out that post war of souls is an objectively better place to set a campaign in the setting. The war of the lance is too well documented and rigid a time, is incredibly restrictive in terms of what classes/races are available (strictly speaking sorcerers, tieflings, warlocks, bards, rangers, arcane tricksters, and a number of other races shouldn't exist during that time period), and is frankly a very dated time for the setting in terms of just how long it's been since the original trilogy came out; at best it will come off incredibly cheesy and hokey a setting, and at worst your players will feel second fiddle to the "true cannon" heroes. And that doesnt even cover the fact that a war of the lance game only has like one possible villain as an option: Takhisis and her armies. Like it or not, the Age of Mortals made the setting function on a modern gaming level and gave the DM a plethora of better options for story fodder.

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You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'm pleased to report that Dragons of Menace, my 5th Edition Dragonlance campaign, just entered its fifth consecutive year:

- Weekly sessions
- Eight players
- 100% player retention since Dec 2014
- Based in Maelgoth, Solamnia
- Overlapping the Solamnic campaign of the War of the Lance

I haven't heard the word "hokey" once, and the two encounters my PCs have had with the Heroes of the Lance have been well received by those few of my players who have read the novels.

My players cleaved fairly close to the (frankly absurdly restrictive) 1987 rules for the setting, despite being unaware of them, so I didn't have a lot of justification to do. We do have a ranger, and I'm not sure why you think they shouldn't exist -- they are described in Dragonlance Adventures more or less as 'see PHB.'

They /did/ save Sturm with Revivify, but despite the doomsayers' warnings, D&D seems to have survived, if Twitch.tv is any evidence.

I have to say that it always surprises me when people hold up the Age of Mortals while criticizing the character-driven nature of the War of the Lance, as though every major novel written in the setting since Summer Flame hasn't been entirely about Mary Sue.

I mean Mina. Sorry.

Thanks!

Thank you DMZ2112,

I had not seen the note before I posted my message but later on I saw it. It actually a pretty good Archetype he build and I'm going to use it.

Cheer!!

Eric Bienvenue said:

Hi Raunalyn,

I would really like to see your note on the Knight of the Crown as I am working on a DL game where a Knight will be the main character. so if you can share you info, that would be great

Eric

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The Knight of the Crown is actually a simple implementation. I had created a subclass for the Crown knight, which I will post here, but any of the fighter subclasses will work. Being a member of the Crown knights is like joining a faction.

Here's my Crown knight. Keep in mind that while it was playtested extensively, some of the newer subclasses work just as well (either the Cavalier or the Samurai in Xanathar's):


Knight of Solamnia (Fighter sub-class)

Strength in Honor
At 3rd level, when a fighter chooses this path, he gains the ability to use the focus and knowledge gained from the Oath and the Measure and his honorable path to strengthen his resolve. Until the end of his next turn, the Knight has advantage on all Strength checks and Strength Saving Throws, as well as advantage on all Melee Attacks. He cannot use this ability until he has a short or long rest. At 7th level, he can do this twice before taking a short or long rest, and at 15th level, he can use it 3 times before taking a short or long rest.

Honorable Will
At 7th level, the Knight gains advantage on any saving throw to resist Charm or Compulsion effects due to his devotion to Honor and the Oath and the Measure.

Aura of Courage
At 10th level, the Knight becomes immune to all fear effects. In addition, all allies within 10 feet of the Knight gain advantage on any saving throw to resist fear effects.

Heroic Initiative
At 15th level, the Knight has advantage on initiative rolls..

Crown of Knighthood
At 18th level, the Knight gains advantage on all saving throws. In addition, he can focus on his devotion to Honor and receive resistance to piercing, bludgeoning and slashing damage for one minute. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Strength modifier.

Now, things become more problematic when you want to progress to Sword or Rose. Sword knights are actually not difficult: multiclass into a Devotion Paladin. Rose knights, you'll need to think about. Luckily, the knight in my game didn't want to go Rose knight. I had originally made a feat for the Rose knight, which I will post below.


Knight of the Rose (Feat)
Prerequisite: Knight of the Sword

Increase your Strength or Charisma by 1 point, to a maximum of 20.

Rallying Cry: As an action, the Rose Knight can utter a powerful shout that grants courage and strength to his allies. All allies within 30 feet gain advantage on their next roll, whether it's a saving throw, ability check or attack roll. In addition, their base speed increases by 5 feet until the end of your next turn. In addition, any enemy within 30 feet must make a Wisdom saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Charisma modifier + your proficiency bonus or be Frightened until the end of your next turn. This ability cannot be used again until you have taken a short or long rest.

Inspire Greatness : The Rose Knight can inspire greatness in all willing allies within 30 feat. To inspire greatness, the knight must speak, and the creature must be able to hear the knight speak. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 hit dice worth of temporary hit points (these are not actually used). This ability cannot be used again until the knight has a short or long rest.

Thanks!

As the play tester for that Knight of the Crown, I do disagree with [MENTION=72670]Raunalyn[/MENTION] that the class works as a Knight of the Crown. To me, a KotC is meant as the pretty stereotypical "sword and board" fighter type. The problem with this power is that it almost forces the class to go two weapon fighting. Gaining what is effectively a poor man's rage for 2 rounds 1/short rest does not make up for the incredible loss of power from either a battle master or a champion fighter.

IOW, yup, you might hit a couple more times per day, but, it just isn't worth it. The sword and board fighter I made, in a group with a ranger and a paladin, was dead last consistently in damage output.

The only way to bring that character up to par would be to go with some sort of two handed weapon and Great Weapon Fighting. Otherwise, it's really a trap option.

Put it this way. A barbarian rages for X times per day, for entire combats, gains double hit points, damage bonuses to every attack and can gain advantage on attacks at any time, and this is considered balanced against other classes. This class gets to gain advantage, no damage bonuses, no Hit Point bonuses for two rounds 1/short rest. It's far too weak.