Seduction = Bluff or Seduction = Diplomacy

KnowTheToe · Feb 4, 2003

There is no sex in roll playing so I reduce it to a simple role using diplomacy or bluff, use best modifier.

What I find interesting is that so many people are using bluff. What, when men are seducing women or vise-versa (Yeah, right) in a bar, club, class etc, you do not think they are sincere, but are fibbing to up their odds for a date or knocken some boots?

jmucchiello · Feb 4, 2003

As stated in Joe's Book of Enchantment, Seduction is a composite skill, made from Bluff and Diplomacy. The seducer uses whichever skill she wishes and the seducee "defends" with either Sense Motive or Diplomacy, which every he wishes. Composite skills will be revisited in Character Customization.

Kerrick: Very similar to my write-up. My write-up makes no assumption about what the seducer will get out of his seduction. Only that he is tempting the seducee with some "desire".

Edit: KnowTheToe: Seduction doesn't have to involve sex. You can seduce someone into stealing money from their employer by promising them something they desire.

Ravellion · Feb 4, 2003

BOZ said:
diplomacy to get a girlfriend, bluff to get a one night stand.

I just DID quote you on that!

I agree though, so no worries...

Rav

am181d · Feb 4, 2003

Shadowdancer said:
So which is it? Or more to the point, which do you think it should be? What do you use in your game?

Well, since the Bluff skill isn't really designed to persuade people. You could use Bluff to make an NPC think you were interested in them, but I don't see how that would be particularly useful for seduction...

(I suppose you could also use Bluff to feign indifference, if you want to "play hard to get.")

It wouldn't be an issue if Diplomacy were simply called "Persuade", which is what it generally winds up getting used for...

Henry · Feb 4, 2003

KnowTheToe said:
What I find interesting is that so many people are using bluff. What, when men are seducing women or vise-versa (Yeah, right) in a bar, club, class etc, you do not think they are sincere, but are fibbing to up their odds for a date or knocken some boots?

I think the better definition of Bluff vs. Diplomacy would be the following:

Bluff is used to tell the target what they want to hear.

Diplomacy is about getting the target to agree with you, and for the most part to tell YOU what YOU want to hear.

Bluffing is good for feinting, because you give the target the "tells" he expects to see.

Bluffing is good for seduction because you give your object of desire the "tells" that they use to tell them you are suitable for intimacy - whether it is the truth, or a lie, doesn't matter. The good bluffer knows when the truth works just as well as a lie.

Diplomacy is for convincing someone to your way of thinking, or at the very least a compromise that is just as good for you as for them.

BOZ · Feb 4, 2003

KnowTheToe said:
There is no sex in roll playing

are you serious?

hey, with so many virgins into gaming (sorry fellas, we know you're out there) how can you not expect them to find an outlet, albeit a particularly imaginary one, for their frustrations?

lol, seriously if you're all adults, it can be a lot of fun (or hell, even if you're all kids...)

barsoomcore · Feb 4, 2003

Henry said:
Bluff is used to tell the target what they want to hear.

Diplomacy is about getting the target to agree with you, and for the most part to tell YOU what YOU want to hear.

Not sure I agree with you. I would say:

A successful Bluff check means the target believes you.

A successful Diplomacy check means the target LIKES you.

The primary use of Diplomacy is to shift an NPC's position on the NPC Attitude chart, right? To change them from Hostile to Friendly.

So seduction I guess would work like this: First the target must be Friendly. Use Diplomacy to get them to that state. Second, unless true love is at hand, use Bluff to make the target believe that sleeping with you is a good idea.

Now, of course, most "seduction" actually involves two people more or less seducing themselves. If we're just talking about getting together with someone pretty for a night's entertainment, then I don't require any sorts of rolls. I would work with a system like this only if the NPC in question had reasons to NOT sleep with the PC.

Otherwise, big deal. Why make anyone roll for that?

Dark Jezter · Feb 4, 2003

I'd say that whether seduction is a diplomacy or bluff check would depend on the situation.

For example, if the party's rogue tries to seduce the sultry barmaid by making up a bogus story that he is a prince in exile on a quest to reclaim his lost kindgom, it would be a bluff check.

On the other hand, if the well-traveled adventurer was telling the young noblewoman about his previous adventures in an effort to impress her and get her into bed, I'd say that would be a diplomacy check.

Shadowdancer · Feb 5, 2003

KnowTheToe said:
There is no sex in roll playing

Don't ever play in our game, then. There's always sex in our game. But then, we're all older than 40, so we can handle it. For some of the players, it's the only sex they're getting.