Please help me build a knowledge-based character

zyzzyr · Feb 4, 2003

Hello,

I am looking to build a character who delights in obscure lore, and casts only subtle spells (no evocation or flashy spells). His interest would be adventuring to discover this lore, but as he dislikes combat, he would instead focus his skills and powers on helping others become more powerful.

Immediately I thought of a bard/diviner. Unfortunately, I find the bard to be less than appealing, due to arcane spell failure chance (I then should take mage armor as a spell, which is tough when bards get so few spells). Also, bards get too few skills for my liking: the same as a barbarian? In addition, I find bardic music to be very weak.

I do very much like the idea of bardic knowledge, which is essentially the core of what I'd like my character to collect. I also like the Perform skill, since he's going to be the transporter of information around the world.

I thought that choosing diviner would be good, as he uses his studies to try to extract more information from things.

However, it just doesn't sit well with me. Can anyone please come up with other suggestions for me?

Note that I am restricted to Core and Splatbooks.

Thanks,

zyzzyr

Voadam · Feb 4, 2003

Be a diviner and pick up loremaster at your earliest opportunity.

Take lots of divination and buffing spells, perhaps barred school evocation.

What level do you plan to start at 1 or higher?

perhaps the feat that allows you to make a skill always a class skill and pick gather info.

Lore master, three metamagic or item creations and skill focus knowledge (any) plus two knowledges at 10 ranks plus 7 divinatins (1 at least third level).

they are essentially sage spellcasters with bardic lore.

zyzzyr · Feb 4, 2003

Hi,

I had looked into Loremaster but the problem there is that the bardic-knowledge like feat is not attained until total character level 9 or higher. I am starting at level 5.

But yes, you've got the idea - I'd like buff spells and divinity spells.

Looking at it a bit though, it seems to me I don't need much more than 3rd level diviner spells for my purposes, hence 5th level wiz would be the max I would take.

Rel · Feb 4, 2003

I like the idea for this character. It could be a bit tricky to implement though.

The suggestion that initially springs to mind would be Cleric/Rogue. Make him a Cleric of Boccob with the Knowledge and Magic domains. Max out your Int and Wis (he'll be very smart and observant) but don't worry so much about Str, Dex and Con. Make your Cha as high or low as you like.

All Knowledge skills will be class skills. You can use your Cleric spells for buffing AND divination. Your Rogue skill points will go into more Knowledge skills as well as possibly skills that let you sneak into places to gain the knowledge you seek. Decipher Script will also fit the character concept as will Perform. To top it off, you'll be able to use magical items like a Wizard of half your Cleric level and can take ranks in Use Magic Device.

If you split the levels evenly (which may or may not be a good idea) then you'll still average more skill points than a Bard.

Stone Angel · Feb 4, 2003

I also like the idea for this character. I tried to make a guy like this though I never got to play him. My spin was that he was like Denzel Washington in the bone collector. An excellent problem solver, and he had an uncanny knack for knowing obscure things. Like the hilts design of the dagger used in the noble mystery was from a certain province in a neighboring country. Or certain material is imported from another certain place. He used his spells to aid in his detection skills. He was a rogue/wiz/cleric. Let us know how it pans out.

As to help you out just work with your dm and get all the knowledge skills you can, I have never worked with the Loremaster prestige class, so I do not know about that.

zyzzyr · Feb 4, 2003

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion. It's definitely a very interesting one, and one I hadn't considered.

The really nice aspect to me is that I wouldn't have a spell failure chance. Unfortunately the bard is the only spellcasting class that gets hammered with this (in that it's the only class where it's important to wear armour).

I would miss the bardic knowledge feature, though, but I guess one feature isn't enough to warrant a class choice.

I have thought about adding a third class, but the problem that arises to me is that two of them have to be within 1 level of each other (I am definitely taking human as race), or you suffer an absolutely obscene xp penalty.

Is there any reason that neither of you recommended the bard? Bardic knowledge and obscure lore are synonymous.

LostSoul · Feb 4, 2003

If your DM is nice, you might be able to talk him into letting you have Bardic Knowledge as a Feat. It isn't a great ability, and it's really of more use to a DM because he can decide what lore you remember.

Enkhidu · Feb 4, 2003

This might be a bit funky, but if your DM goes for it, it just might work.

Be a level 5 Expert.

Now here's where it gets tricky: you're going to have to convince your DM that NPC classes as written are simply not PC class caliber, but that Expert is very close - so close that all it would take to balance it is the Bardic Knowledge ability. If the DM goes for this, you're home free - simply take and max out Use Magic Device as a class skill (perfectly legal as an Expert) and go to town with Divination scrolls. - or, if you like, mix this class with Wizard (Diviner) for the spells.

How's that?

JoeBlank · Feb 4, 2003

I think Bard is not being suggested because it is obvious you have considered it, and are now looking at other alternatives.

Along the lines of taking bardic knowledge as a feat, perhaps you could use the cleric/rogue (or cleric/expert) idea and ask your DM to let you swap the cleric's turning ability for bardic knowledge.

Of course, turning is much more powerful than bardic knowledge in combat situations, but it does not seem to fit your character concept. And perhaps your DM would be generous in allowing you to use your bardic knowledge, knowing what you gave up to get it.

Celebrim · Feb 4, 2003

"And perhaps your DM would be generous in allowing you to use your bardic knowledge, knowing what you gave up to get it."

I'd let a character do that in a heart beat. It isn't that big of step for me, because I already go so far as to let clerics of certain dieties (notably those who lack the evil, good, death, or sun domains) give up turning undead entirely in favor of access to a third domain power (but not the spells).