Melee Cleric Build

Numion said:

I'm not a wanker though, and realize that sometimes it's for the better if I buff others. However, getting the use of my abilities is a privilige for the rest of the group, not a right. I usually, for example, offer one 2nd slot for the groups rogue. He can choose endurance or delay poison or whatever. But if I really needed that slot, good luck, rogue.

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It is always amusing to see self-proclaimed selfish characters that are so incompetent at their avowed calling. My spellcasters love buffing up others. As long as I keep busy buffing them up, no one expects me to stand next to a nasty monster where I might get hurt. And when I do have to pull out my weapon, the last thing I want to do is rival the Fighter in damaged dished out. Doing too much damage attracts attention -- the kind of attention that will get you killed.

Second of all, the D&D system doesn't really work all that well without a good measure of teamwork. It is a genre assumption that smooths over a lot of rough patches that would otherwise cause problems. YMMV.

As Shard pointed out, it is a team game.

If not, my barbarian wants three shares of the treasure for standing in front and taking risks that would instantly kill anyone else. Unless we take turns on point ... let's have the cleric or mage lead the way today. That will be fun, won't it?

Ridley's Cohort said:

It is always amusing to see self-proclaimed selfish characters that are so incompetent at their avowed calling. My spellcasters love buffing up others. As long as I keep busy buffing them up, no one expects me to stand next to a nasty monster where I might get hurt. And when I do have to pull out my weapon, the last thing I want to do is rival the Fighter in damaged dished out. Doing too much damage attracts attention -- the kind of attention that will get you killed.

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Incompetent? Back up that statement, please. I stated my objective, and it wasn't evading responsibility in combat. I've pulled more than my weight in combat. Is it selfish to use my own abilities on me, even which I'm not doing exclusively?! Just like other characters aren't required to give their loot to me (we divide evenly), I can't be required to give my abilities to others.

Just like the fighter. Or barbarian. Or rogue. If I was forced to cast spells on others, then I'd just friggin' play the barbarian.

Keep in mind that I do buff others - on my discretion. Magic vestment goes to the front-line tank almost always, because as an archer I'm rarely hit anyway. Bottom line is that I choose from my spell list what I need to maximize my effectiveness. Then I can use whats left on others.

Ok, now this starting to sound like the "Declaration of Independence for Clerics" or something ..

Second of all, the D&D system doesn't really work all that well without a good measure of teamwork. It is a genre assumption that smooths over a lot of rough patches that would otherwise cause problems. YMMV.

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Cleric was made a bit too powerful in 3e in this regard. A long way from 1e where my barbarian beat up the cleric if he didn't heal.

ps. I know what I'm doing. Our group has two clerics, one tank and one rogue. One cleric is meleer and I'm archer. Now this wouldn't work if the clerics just buffed. In this group everyone is expected to kick ass in combat. And they do.

I

Ridley's Cohort said:

As Shard pointed out, it is a team game.

If not, my barbarian wants three shares of the treasure for standing in front and taking risks that would instantly kill anyone else. Unless we take turns on point ... let's have the cleric or mage lead the way today. That will be fun, won't it?

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Cleric can lead the way. I'm much better protected than the barbarian anyway - no elemental damage, no death effects, no falling into pits. I've got no objections to that.

I find a cleric buffing a fighter type is more effective than a cleric buffing a cleric.

If the fighter has Cleave and the cleric doesn't each time he cleaves he gets an extra benefit from the buffing spell. Each iterative attack is an extra benefit from the buffing spell, etc.

I think a cleric can push himself up past the fighter types, but he can push the fighter much farther.

I speak in general, of course. It sounds like you've got a special scenario Numion.

PS

I find a cleric buffing a fighter type is more effective than a cleric buffing a cleric.

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I generally agree with that. For example in our current campaign my weaponsmaster is pretty nasty, a large portion of that is becuase he spends most of his time with a fly from our wizard and a poly self that gets loaded into his ring of spellstoring evey morning.

However there are some spells that a cleric can cast that are self only and can make him very powerful. Specifically divine favor and divine power. Righteous might is pretty nice as well.

All in all I think a cleric should buff and heal the party, but if he was designed to play a combat roll a few spells to make him effective in combat are not a waste.

Storminator said:

I find a cleric buffing a fighter type is more effective than a cleric buffing a cleric.

If the fighter has Cleave and the cleric doesn't each time he cleaves he gets an extra benefit from the buffing spell. Each iterative attack is an extra benefit from the buffing spell, etc.

I think a cleric can push himself up past the fighter types, but he can push the fighter much farther.

I speak in general, of course. It sounds like you've got a special scenario Numion.

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That might be true. But I like to play character who is strong in combat and has utility too. Cleric using spells on himself in combat is the only class that lets me do this. A little like a psychic warrior, but only better.

Consider though that it's always good to spread your power a little; thus a group of two able combatants is better than a single superbuff fighter and a healer cleric.

Another part of tactics is that I normally don't heal during combat. It's a losing battle, since you can never heal more damage in a round than the enemies can deal. Until you get mass heal, of course.

My brother built a cleric for a 10th level Forgotten Realms campaign. He built his character around having the Dwarven Thrower, his character is kicking alot of ass. Here is how he built it.
High STR, low DEX, mid-high CON, 16 WIS.
His a cleric of Dumathoin with Metal and Dwarf domains
Feats: Expertise, Extend spell, Pesistant Spell and another feat i cant remember
He just didnt like Expertise as his first feat and said he should have gotten Spell Casting Prodigy and then in 12th lvl get Expertise.
With boots of haste, he throws his hammer and then casts a spell.
Really good character, his having lots of fun.
Hope it helps.