D&D 5E How would you build a non-monk unarmed warrior?

TrippyHippy · Jan 5, 2015

Tormyr said:
Make a half-orc barbarian. Max out Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Minimize Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Give him Tavern Brawler feat.

And name him Banner.

Good. But he won’t be able to take the Tavern Brawler feat till 4th level if he’s a Half Orc. Only Humans have access to Feats at level 1 (if your group is using them).

CapnZapp · Jan 5, 2015

TrippyHippy said:
Another alternative is to just modify the Monk thematically, so that it’s a street fighter by trade rather than an ascetic warrior.

It would take a degree of work to get the DM to sit down and work it out with you, and you really ought to remove a lot of the more mystical abilities by rights too. You could possibly do this by multi classing at an early Level though - as most of the more mystical stuff occurs at higher levels.

You could simply reskin any weapon to stand in for "unarmed" (just like the advice on improvised) and then play a regular fighter (barbarian, ranger etc).

I would probably start with Club for "fists" and Greatclub for "feet". Then upgrade the weapon die one step with the Tavern Brawler feat, resulting in d6 fist damage and d10 feet damage.

Mechanically you would otherwise be exactly the same as a regular, armed, fighter. So with similar if not identical damage dice this would not be overpowered.

And it would be much much simpler than retooling an entire class.

TrippyHippy · Jan 5, 2015

I’m not really suggesting that the Monk be retooled - just the fluff around it being appropriated to a different interpretation.

xynthoros · Jan 6, 2015

While I do not disagree that a half-orc doesn't get a feat at level 1, I don't think having 1+str damage is that big of a deal, It is the same damage as rolling a one on a d12 for your greataxe. Then you can take the grappling feet and you get to have your opponent all tied up all the time, by level 6 as a fighter. Advantage while grappling, ability to restrain an opponent, I am not seeing a lot of downsides to such a build, though you will have to suffer through 4 points of damage for quite some time. Level 4 doesn't usually take that long though so...

ad_hoc · Jan 6, 2015

The problem with a Bard, as with most other Classes, is that the sum total of damage they can muster from an “Unarmed Attack” is……1 HP.

Tavern Brawler is not a fighter only feat.

A bard can take it. A bard can have high strength too.

A bard also gets expertise which makes them amazing grapplers (part of being an unarmed warrior).

A lore bard gets cutting words which makes them a better grappler. A valor bard gets medium armour, shields and an extra attack.

On top of all of this you are still a full caster.

While I do not disagree that a half-orc doesn't get a feat at level 1, I don't think having 1+str damage is that big of a deal, It is the same damage as rolling a one on a d12 for your greataxe. Then you can take the grappling feet and you get to have your opponent all tied up all the time, by level 6 as a fighter. Advantage while grappling, ability to restrain an opponent, I am not seeing a lot of downsides to such a build, though you will have to suffer through 4 points of damage for quite some time. Level 4 doesn't usually take that long though so...

Grappler is a bad feat. (part of it doesn't even do anything)

Restraining an opponent also limits yourself. It is much better to knock them prone. You don't need a feat to do it and you can still walk around with them.

TrippyHippy · Jan 6, 2015

ad_hoc said:
Tavern Brawler is not a fighter only feat.

A bard can take it. A bard can have high strength too.

A bard also gets expertise which makes them amazing grapplers (part of being an unarmed warrior).

A lore bard gets cutting words which makes them a better grappler. A valor bard gets medium armour, shields and an extra attack.

On top of all of this you are still a full caster.

Sure, but the implication of your first post was that you were advising that Bards would be better as unarmed fighters than characters using Tavern Brawler (and Shield). As another class that could use the Tavern Brawler feat then fine - and yes I could imagine Bards getting into all sorts of trouble in taverns!

But again, only Human characters could take the feat at level 1 - if that is seen as a limitation.

Grappler is a bad feat. (part of it doesn't even do anything)

Restraining an opponent also limits yourself. It is much better to knock them prone. You don't need a feat to do it and you can still walk around with them.[/QUOTE]

Zaruthustran · Jan 6, 2015

I had a half-completed build for a Captain America style brawler. Tavern Brawler for the d4 unarmed and proficiency with Improvised Weapons, Dual Wielder for the ability to TWF even if the weapons aren't light--and then use TWF with fist and shield.

Unfortunately, by a strict reading of the rules it doesn't work. A shield is an object. And while it can be used as an improvised weapon, it is certainly not a "one-handed melee weapon"--which is the requirement for TWF.

Still: a Tavern Brawler can definitely bash with that shield at full proficiency bonus for (at least) d4 damage. D6 if you and your DM agree it should be treated more like a mace than a club (iron-banded shield).

So go with human, fighter 1 (Duelist for the +2 damage), Rogue 1 or Bard 3 (for Expertise in Athletics) and/or Barbarian 1 for Rage (advantage on Str checks), Tavern Brawler and Shield Master, and then:

1. Grapple them with free hand (attack action).
2. Knock them down (bonus action shove).
3. In subsequent turns beat them with the shield, or kick with Unarmed Strike for at least 1d4 + 2 + Str.

Really, at that point just go ahead and follow the excellent advice here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4142801

Oh, also: up above someone asked if you can grapple with your shield hand. No. Grappling requires "at least one free hand."

Kyrax · Mar 5, 2018

PnPgamer said:
Shield is an option, and i had in mind a guy with medium or heavy armor. The shield master and the tavern brawler feat combo should work well, actually. You only need to grapple once, and it makes a huge difference that you can do damage while attempting maneuvers. Given that you at first grapple an enemy as a bonus action, then just bash him down with your shield constantly... Except the enemy cannot get up as he has a speed of 0 because of grappled condition.
Besides the shield shove can be targeted to anyone, not just the targets youve attacked.
The only trouble i have, is that fighter doesnt get any bonuses to the athletics check to grapple or shove. Barbarian rage gives advantage, and rogue could give expertise.

EDIT: second trouble is also that can shield arm be used for grappling? If not, using improvised weapons is kinda out of the question

Hitting someone with a shield is an improvised weapon. So you're good to hit things with a shield while you grapple them

Blue · Mar 6, 2018

Tabaxi or one of the other races with natural damage could sub in for the Tavern Brawler feat. While that fits the letter of the request, not sure if it matches the spirit.

Many people are saying Fighter, and I have to disagree. Fighter is a great chassis, but none of the PHB subclasses work well. Champion is critting with d4s, Battlemaster can't do many of the maneuvers without a weapon, and EK sort of misses the point of unarmed, plus can't do most of their cool stuff like War Magic or Eldritch Strike. In XGtE the arcane archer is out for obvious reasons, the Cavalier can't mark without a weapon attack. The Samurai's Fighting Spirit and Rapid strike are both weapon attacks. Maybe a level or two of fighter for all it's goodness and two weapon fighting.

Yunru · Mar 6, 2018

Blue said:
Tabaxi or one of the other races with natural damage could sub in for the Tavern Brawler feat. While that fits the letter of the request, not sure if it matches the spirit.

Many people are saying Fighter, and I have to disagree. Fighter is a great chassis, but none of the PHB subclasses work well. Champion is critting with d4s, Battlemaster can't do many of the maneuvers without a weapon, and EK sort of misses the point of unarmed, plus can't do most of their cool stuff like War Magic or Eldritch Strike. In XGtE the arcane archer is out for obvious reasons, the Cavalier can't mark without a weapon attack. The Samurai's Fighting Spirit and Rapid strike are both weapon attacks. Maybe a level or two of fighter for all it's goodness and two weapon fighting.

Unarmed Strikes are melee weapon attacks though?

D&D 5E How would you build a non-monk unarmed warrior?

TrippyHippy

Hero

CapnZapp

Legend

TrippyHippy

Hero

xynthoros

First Post

ad_hoc

(they/them)

TrippyHippy

Hero

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

Kyrax

First Post

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Yunru

Banned

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