Help designing a Space Opera campaign via RPGs and Jungian Archetypes?

EDIT: I had a brain-explosion and wrote the third post, so I re-did the title to be more clear.

I've always wanted to try out Star Wars as a game, but I've never liked how the systems make Jedi unreasonably powerful, so that even all-Jedi games aren't fun to GM. I had a padawan use telekinesis to tackle a giant robot boss in the first fight in a SWSE game. Another game got bogged down in modifiers for cover and shooting around corners, with a player who knew the system better than I did; as much as I'm impressed by that, the minutiae I'd have to master and design around to make a scenario useable or cinematic turned me off.
D20 SW also had issues along these lines, and the new book is a bit expensive for now. M&M is way fiddly for me (too much time building characters, spending points, etc.). Freeform games have zero rules, and when players decide they're the Jedi Akira/Neo, it's a bit nuts.

What I've also wanted to do is expand options for non-Jedi so they can be fun, like power armor, better cybernetics, animal companions or mounts, that sort of thing. D20 future has those sorts of things, and d20 Cybernetics, but it never caught on in games I tried running. True20 seems like it could do it, though it wouldn't connect with other products easily.

Also, my issue is that I'd love to create a different setting or Galaxy, with different factions, planets, history, but that never seems popular for some reason.

Example: Stars Without Number has a fantastic planet generation system, and some great tools at the back. D20 future has some great cybernetics options and monsters. I've heard good things about Savage Worlds and FATE, but never played.

If I were to use other systems to create a Franken-SW game, what would be a good way to go about it? I've got my own RPG system, but I'd prefer to try currently-published books for this, for now.

Any suggestions? Either different mini-systems that could be handy, or an entire rules set that could do the job?

Any drawbacks?

First, have you looked at the actual in-print Star Wars games by Fantasy Flight? There are a lot of proponents of the system (and some detractors, admittedly), but it's well-supported and has a very active community.

As far as Fate or Savage Worlds go---- I'm a huge fan of Savage Worlds, and there are several excellent Star Wars fan mods out there for it. If you're wanting your Star Wars to focus primarily on the action side of it---fighting hordes of stormtroopers, swashbuckling hijinks, smooth-talking smugglers---it would be a great choice. If you're wanting to do a Jedi-centric campaign, it COULD work, but would require some very detailed development of the "Force User" arcane background and its associated "powers." And even then, you'd probably have to give the Jedi characters extra advances (what you might call "level ups" in D&D) just to get the feel and power level right.....and the non-Jedi players might have a problem with it.

Fate, I think, would be the exact opposite----fantastic for running a Jedi-centric campaign, less so for a high-action campaign. Force use and powers can easily be modeled as aspects or stunts, and the whole "Jedi Creed" lends itself to Fate-style character choices.

Jedi-centric vs. Cinematic: I don't understand how these are mutually exclusive. Wouldn't Jedi by default involve things like jumping from (space) trains, or (space) car chases, or (space) sword fights?

FFG: I'm super broke. Plus I've always wanted to use all my RPG books for a campaign. Or, well, the opposite of that, which would be something super simple.


Maybe this will help me with what I'm looking for:

I'm puzzling over Jungian archetypes tonight. Star Wars as a "monomyth", the journey of the hero (Luke), his mentor/wise-old-man (Obiwan), against the shadow/father (Darth Vader, with vader actually being the Dutch word for father): the young knight, the wizard, the dark knight; plus the pirate (Han), the princess (Leia), etc.

I don't know why, but creating my own version of Star Wars has always appealed to me, specifically taking elements (Jedi, Sith, Droids, etc.) and using them as I would elements of the D&D mythology: fighters, bards, elves, dwarves, orcs, all as standard setting elements, but shuffling them around and creating my own setting with them.

Oddly, gamers seem to reject this approach to Space Opera: any attempt to re-use the Jedi is passed over, in either fantasy or sci-fi; and running a Star Wars game that isn't cannon isn't considered Star Wars. In fact, people focus on two genres of SW: Jedi games or Serenity/Scum & Villainy. You're either a group of Jedi and their sidekicks, or you're a non-Jedi band of outlaws, probably space cowboys.

My issue with current RPGs is that Jedi are treated like the Batman class, when in the movies they're never, ever that powerful. Even in Clone Wars, with high Jedi numbers, we see character significantly challenges by droids, environmental concerns, and so on. The same sorts of issues RPG characters would face in a game of D&D. Yet in SWSE, the rules allow severe abuse by players on the basis that, technically, Yoda could do a thing, so everyone can do it. Move Object in SWSE, plus Skill Focus (use the force) allows low level characters to throw Imperial Walkers at foes fairly easily, as a one-round action. By comparison, Yoda had to focus most of his energy in Empire Strikes Back in order to slowly, slowly move Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp. By RAW, he's a 20th level character, but in the source material the effort exhausts him.

I'd like to make "a" Star Wars. I'm looking for suggestions, I guess, for things to Mash Up(?) from other RPGs.

Maybe there's a method for players to select archetypes to base their characters off of, like "Child", Crusader, Trickster, Wise Old Man, Anima/Maiden, etc. ?

Regarding Jedi power levels as mentioned in the first post, I really have never seen that in any SW game I have played. It sounds like that is unique to whatever systems you were playing. In fact, I have the opposite issue. Games like the d6 Star Wars from West End Games or the newer Edge of the Empire are very well balanced, which actually makes Jedi suck badly.

If you are balancing a guy with magic powers against a typical smuggler, mechanic or diplomat, then he is really going to suck. By the time you get some minor telepathy and telekenisis, you have given up so much that you no longer have a viable role. Luke Skywalker was a mechanic and pilot, as well as a Jedi. In these games, it would be as if he were neither of those things. Imagine him in the first two movies without those skills, he is pretty lame commoner with a few party tricks.

That being said, both systems are great. EotE is expensive though, so as far as being poor goes, play the d6 system. A free version is available here: http://www.polgarusgames.com/D6/weg51012OGL-D6-Space.pdf

I GMed and played d6 Star Wars for years without every owning a single book back when I was poor. Strangely, the system is so simple, all you need is a charactersheet and you know everything there is not know after playing it once. In this instance, just use that link above and modify it as you see fit. D6 system is my go-to-game for any sci-fi setting that I don't have books for. It is just so easy to tinker with and the rules are robust. The one thing I don't like about it is that the damage system kind of sucks, but maybe that have improved that.

Try creating a fringe world outside the political activities of the movies, with alien force-wielders instead of Jedi. You can just say the Empire and Rebellion have not reached that far yet. That will give you a chance to develop the world the way you want, then when you are ready you can create a tie-in to the mythos by having a stray imperial or rebel ship encounter the planet and its unique brand of force magic...

Well I'm currently building a sci-fi setting for a homebrew game that isn't specifically Star Wars inspired, but there are elements to that. I'm using Pathfinder rules, some elements from EN Publishing Santiago setting, Paizo Technology Guide, and some of my own designs, including a new class called Starship Pilot, that I can honestly say I had "Solo" on my mind as I was designing it. Magic is technology, and spells are called technical procedures or computer programs, but in-game work identically to existing PF spells. Because one of my players always runs or at least wants to run a psionic character, I'm obliging him, as in a non-magic sci-fi setting, including psionics fits, and kind of feels Jedi in that way. I'm planning to run a short AP, perhaps 10 levels of play. As long as spells levels don't get too high, the disparity between martials and casters is lessened. In this way, I think my goals run very closely to your premise, and using a system I know (Pathfinder), and reflavoring it as sci-fi (and kept in the medium power levels below 11th) the potential Jedi of my setting won't necessarily outstrip the capability of the rest of the non-Jedi adventure party.

Of course, as stated, I'm in no way limited nor necessarily inspired to replicate a Star-Wars sci-fi setting. I'm looking at more Merchant Trader, but not Serenity - I don't want a space cowboys theme. I'm probably going to include some type of 3D space combat system so our game can include dog-fighting in space, air to ground support activities, in addition to normal "boots on the ground" roleplaying and combat.

Space stations are under used in most sci-fi games. Think about having one with variable gravity in different sections and using it in place of the traditional local home base...

Samloyal23 said:

Space stations are under used in most sci-fi games. Think about having one with variable gravity in different sections and using it in place of the traditional local home base...

Click to expand...

Even though I have avoided megadungeons in the last decade of gaming, I'm seriously considering including a derelict space hulk - some massive starship of unknown origins with the crew long gone in my upcoming game. Some starfaring nations, more often space pirates, scavengers, and adventures aboard starships visit the station, some establishing communities on and within the giant structure. Some levels are zero-gravity, while some might have areas of varying gravity, even 150% or more. Some areas might have exotic, toxic or vacuum atmospheres. Some areas emanate harmful and exotic radiations. A maze of maintenance ducts intertwine between the decks and bulkheads, in addition to the maze of corridors, bays, barracks, staterooms, labortories, workshops, etc. Monsters of every sci-fi movie and book, in addition, to conversions of standard monsters given an altered flavor, and custom monsters would fill the space bulk.

All this would make it nothing less than a megadungeon in a sci-fi setting, and even though its not my intent, such a megadungeon could be something like the deathstar, if I really wanted...

In the original Star Trek there were several episodes that took place on space station and later the Star Trek: Deep Space 9 series was set on one. Babylon 5 was huge space station with some slum areas and parts designed for aliens that did not breathe terrestrial air.

A base floating in space can be a regular port of call, replacing the generic hometown of the players, indeed, a type of "dungeon" in space. They can also serve in place of specific types of encounters like the local temple where characters get healed or tavern where they learn about local rumours. You can have one as small as a single building or as vast as a Dyson sphere, enclosing an entire star...

You can do anything in GURPS. A little bit of a clunky system, but it allows for a kitchen sink approach.