D&D 5E The Elder Elemental Eye: Ghaunadaur, Tharizdun, and the Forgotten Realms.

Sailor Moon · Jan 13, 2015

I'm going to assume the Elder Elemental plot is going to continue on so I would like to discuss it here, specifically Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun.

Now Ghaunadaur is referred to as the Elemental Eye and it wasn't long ago that he rose to become a greater deity, left the drow pantheon, and created his own divine realm in pandemonium. He was considered old even before Ao's time. He is, and has been, an active part of the Realms for many years now. It is said that he even has a connection with Tharizdun. Now I would assume this whole plot would revolve around Ghaunadaur because it seems like it would be the best candidate.

However, knowing WoTc and how they operate, I will be it's going to be about Tharizdun because they really propped him up back in 4th edition. I also think they will bring over his association with the Abyss from 4th edition's Points if Light and force it, and him, into the Realms instead of using Ghaunadaur who already has fully established lore, risen power, and who makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Li Shenron · Jan 13, 2015

I would expect that they just keep FR and Greyhawk separate, or at most suggest that in the "all settings exist within the multi-multiverse" way of thinking, there are connections between the two.

By the way, in our main homebrew setting, the two deities have been the same one for a long time...

MerricB · Jan 13, 2015

Tharizdun, despite being introduced in Greyhawk, is a multiversal god. He can exist in every world.

He's made appearances in the classic 2E adventure Night Below (which isn't one particular campaign world, but can be adapted to several), in 4E's Nentir Vale, and in 4E Forgotten Realms.

Ghaunadaur almost certainly first made his appearance as the Elder Elemental God in G3: Hall of the Fire Giant King. ("Temple of the Eye"). It's worth remembering that a lot of the Drow in the Forgotten Realms is derived from the Greyhawk Vault of the Drow. The writers of the Realms have taken it far past Gary's original conception, but that's where it started.

So, does Tharizdun=Ghaunaduar? Well, probably as much as Tharizdun=Elder Elemental God...

Cheers!

Sailor Moon · Jan 13, 2015

I think they are going to lessen the wall between beings of other worlds and allow more cross overs. Just because a being maybe multiuniversal doesn't mean it should be popping up in multiple worlds very loosely.

I don't see Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun being the same being.

Prism · Jan 14, 2015

Sailor Moon said:
I think they are going to lessen the wall between beings of other worlds and allow more cross overs. Just a being maybe multiuniversal doesn't mean it should be popping up in multiple worlds very loosely.

I don't see Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun being the same being.

I agree that the big bad of the next AP should really be Ghaunadaur. Whether or not it is the same entity should be left as vague as it has been since he was first introduced. That way groups can decide for themselves if they want a Tharizdun connection. It was never confirmed in Greyhawk as far as I know.

Mortals (players) should not know this stuff. Divine secrets should be well....secrets. Saying that, we just had an epic homebrew adventure (22nd) where we found out who Asmodeus really was, which was a blast. Or maybe that was another falsehood

the Jester · Jan 15, 2015

I agree that conflating Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun would be... poor.

However, I also think that conflating Tharizdun with the EEG was poor. And I think that Ghaunadaur makes a fully appropriate EEG.

Parmandur · Jan 15, 2015

We know literally nothing at this point. We'll see.

SirAntoine · Jan 15, 2015

Tharizdun would be unstoppable. He was imprisoned only by every other deity from Greyhawk working together, and he utterly destroyed Greyhawk.

MonsterEnvy · Jan 15, 2015

SirAntoine said:
Tharizdun would be unstoppable. He was imprisoned only by every other deity from Greyhawk working together, and he utterly destroyed Greyhawk.

Well we are not going to fight him. It's much more likely we will be fighting the Elemental Princes which are setting neutral.

Shadowdweller00 · Apr 1, 2015

Spoilers!!!!! Princes of the Apocalypse Spoilers!!!!

Just got Princes of the Apocalypse. Reading through the final dungeons actually makes me think that the Elder Elemental Eye in Faerun really IS going to be Ghaunadaur. Or at least there is a shrine to Ghaunadaur in the Fane of the Elder Elemental Eye. Most probably Ghaunadaur is going to be held out as the FR equivalent to Tharizdun...just as the 5e PHB (I think? DMG maybe?) states that Takhisis is Dragonlance's equivalent of Tiamat. And also making fears about pulling Greyhawk out of the Realms somewhat misplaced. As far as I can tell thusfar, PotA is actually silent on the matter

Tharizdun's obex (described in other terms), ziggurats, and assorted madness/purple references appear in places.