5E Edition Wars, WHY? - Page 8
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  1. #71
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    Hate to drive a stake through your joke, Henry, but that one's already been exposed to the light of day. I know it bites.



    (Which, of course, was a response to the vampire joke you originally posted; not the entirely reasonable post you replaced it with. )
    Last edited by Rune; Thursday, 22nd January, 2015 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #72
    4th edition was a particularly divisive edition. I've never seen edition warring like I did when 4th edition came out. I've been around for every edition. Anyone that says any edition created a bigger schism in the D&D community than 4E doesn't really know what they're talking about. There was no more divisive edition. Pathfinder is a testament to that.

    5th edition has next to no edition warring other than a small group that don't like change. That is about on par with any previous edition.

    It has nothing do with a growing cynicism. 4th edition was divisive. It was an outlier in the history of D&D. I think in-house it has become a cautionary tale of what not to do when making a new edition of D&D.

    As far as the rest of your post, it's the Internet. An unknown number (in the hundreds to millions) posting their opinion. You're always going to get at least a few people that take what you say and blow it way out of proportion or distort it. It's unavoidable. The only thing you can hope for is enough moderation to keep the amount of crazy to a minimum. Heck. I know one guy that goes out of his way to troll message boards as entertainment. He even develops separate aliases he develops over time just for trolling. He doesn't troll in a direct fashion. He slowly cultivates arguments over time using his alternate alias. He spends hours of his online time doing this for his own entertainment. He considers his own form of "mind control." He likes the feeling he gets manipulating others into pointless, petty arguments where they're wasting their time arguing with him because they can't help themselves, while he laughs at them. You get all kinds posting on the Internet. It's up to you what you respond to fortunately. So you can avoid the petty arguments by avoiding responding to such discussions.
    Last edited by Celtavian; Thursday, 22nd January, 2015 at 07:57 AM.
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  3. #73
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    OK, since I was told earier in this thread not to take things in a bad light can someone tell me how a fan of 4e (who thinks it was the best edition so far) how I am supposed to interpret someone saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtavian View Post
    4th edition was a particularly divisive edition. -snip-. There was no more divisive edition. Pathfinder is a testament to that.

    -snip-
    It has nothing do with a growing cynicism. 4th edition was divisive. It was an outlier in the history of D&D. I think in-house it has become a cautionary tale of what not to do when making a new edition of D&D.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMforPowergamers View Post
    OK, since I was told earier in this thread not to take things in a bad light can someone tell me how a fan of 4e (who thinks it was the best edition so far) how I am supposed to interpret someone saying:
    As someone's opinion... that's just as valid on these forums as the one you give in the above post...

    I mean I'm not understanding this, are you saying that unless it's praise, as a fourth edition fan you don't want anyone to be able to post anything negative about 4e on these forums (even though we're technically in the 5e forums)? I mean in the same vein why should you be able to come into a clearly marked 5e forum and sing the praises of 4e as "the best edition so far"? I'm seeing a bit of a double standard here. Personally unless it's insulting you or the players of an edition as a whole... I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to post their opinion on any edition whatever it is.
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMforPowergamers View Post
    OK, since I was told earier in this thread not to take things in a bad light can someone tell me how a fan of 4e (who thinks it was the best edition so far) how I am supposed to interpret someone saying:
    We don't do moderation by mob here, so that's not the right way to deal with a post you think is edition warring. That said - D&D 4th Edition was - and still is, as shown by this very post - very divisive. There's no real way to deny that, and it's certainly not a value judgement on your game tastes.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtavian View Post
    4th edition was a particularly divisive edition. I've never seen edition warring like I did when 4th edition came out. I've been around for every edition. Anyone that says any edition created a bigger schism in the D&D community than 4E doesn't really know what they're talking about. There was no more divisive edition. Pathfinder is a testament to that.

    5th edition has next to no edition warring other than a small group that don't like change. That is about on par with any previous edition.

    It has nothing do with a growing cynicism. 4th edition was divisive. It was an outlier in the history of D&D. I think in-house it has become a cautionary tale of what not to do when making a new edition of D&D.

    As far as the rest of your post, it's the Internet. An unknown number (in the hundreds to millions) posting their opinion. You're always going to get at least a few people that take what you say and blow it way out of proportion or distort it. It's unavoidable. The only thing you can hope for is enough moderation to keep the amount of crazy to a minimum. Heck. I know one guy that goes out of his way to troll message boards as entertainment. He even develops separate aliases he develops over time just for trolling. He doesn't troll in a direct fashion. He slowly cultivates arguments over time using his alternate alias. He spends hours of his online time doing this for his own entertainment. He considers his own form of "mind control." He likes the feeling he gets manipulating others into pointless, petty arguments where they're wasting their time arguing with him because they can't help themselves, while he laughs at them. You get all kinds posting on the Internet. It's up to you what you respond to fortunately. So you can avoid the petty arguments by avoiding responding to such discussions.
    More an Illithid than a Troll then
    Laugh Sadras, Celtavian laughed with this post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaro View Post
    Personally unless it's insulting you or the players of an edition as a whole... I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to post their opinion on any edition whatever it is.
    In fact just to elaborate further on what Imaro has added, anyone is allowed to critique, in a respectful discussion of course, any edition/game and elaborate why he/she does not like it or certain aspects of it which don't suit their group's particular playstyle.
    We all have different likes/dislikes and that is ok.

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    Perhaps, I am way off base with this thought, but I can't help but think that some of the "edition warring" is caused by the time the player (or DM) was introduced to the game.

    Most people have a feeling of fondness to the product that introduced them to something. I see this happen a lot with music. Some fans like a bands first record the most, as that is how they were introduced to that band. Other fans have a later album as their favorite, a different album is how they were introduced to the band. That's not to say that they hate the rest of their albums, it's just that they prefer to listen to "the one that got them started".

    I imagine that it's the same way with D&D. People have fond memories of games played in their youth (feelings of nostalgia run strong), so in their mind, that was the "best" edition.

    There will never be a way to convince someone that their feelings aren't "correct" or that they're "wrong" in how they feel. That will only cause them to be angered. Nobody likes to be told how to feel, it's the way we're wired.

    At the end of the day, I think ALL editions are the "best" editions...to those who love them. I think all RPG players are a bit of a minorty when it comes to society as a whole. In that light, I feel no need to bash on another gamer for liking what they like. If I had their gaming experiences, and had lived their lives, I too would probably feel the same way.

    Happy gaming all, no matter what editon you play and enjoy. It really is the "best" one ever.
    Last edited by painted_klown; Thursday, 22nd January, 2015 at 03:18 PM.

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by painted_klown View Post
    Perhaps, I am way off base with this thought, but I can't help but think that some of the "edition warring" is caused by the time the player (or DM) was introduced to the game.
    Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I'm a huge fan of it. And yes, I do get irritated when people wave away your preferences due to nostalgia, like it's not a valid reason.

    "You just think it's good because of nostalgia, but it's really not." Makes me just a tad annoyed

    If I enjoy it, or if it gives me a good feeling, than that's all that matters and is proof enough that it is in fact good.


    RE: edition wars, there is a difference between criticism and getting personal with someone's preferences. Saying 4e was divisive or made the most radical changes is not edition warring. Saying 1e was written all over the place and hard to follow is not edition warring. Saying 3e made it really easy for min/maxers to overwhelm casual players is not edition warring. Saying 4e ruined D&D, or that 1e was garbage, or that 3e is a game only for munchkins, is.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaro View Post
    As someone's opinion... that's just as valid on these forums as the one you give in the above post...

    I mean I'm not understanding this, are you saying that unless it's praise, as a fourth edition fan you don't want anyone to be able to post anything negative about 4e on these forums (even though we're technically in the 5e forums)? I mean in the same vein why should you be able to come into a clearly marked 5e forum and sing the praises of 4e as "the best edition so far"? I'm seeing a bit of a double standard here. Personally unless it's insulting you or the players of an edition as a whole... I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to post their opinion on any edition whatever it is.
    this seems so odd, what makes you think anyone anywhere would ever just want praise for anything??

    this wasn't an indepth "Hey X was handled badly by Y and here is why I think that." it was "Hey X is an outlayer" witch to me is dismissive and in no way a vailid anything... it's the same as saying "All X are Y..."

    I don't come here looking for 4e stuff, I come here to talk about 5e, some of that talk is about the best and worst of previus editions. And of course that is subjective, everyones favorite part of Edition X is someone else hated part... but I would expect people to not dismiss any one edition out of hand, and if they like or dislike part of an edition to be able to atleast someone what say why without insult or general use of terms used to insult that edition...

    example: the roles talk, you don't have to like roles, you don't have to agree with any part of them, but when you dismiss that roles where ever in anything other then 4e with no reason other then 'it wasn't D&D" or something like it I think that comes off as edition waring...

    4e was far from perfect, I bet 5e is too (still trying it out), I will go out an a ledge here and bet 6e, 7e, and 8e wont be perfect either, and I do so knowing that 2e, 3e, myth and magic, pathfinder, hackmaster, and every other version of the game I have ever played were far from perfect... some of them got stuff really right, and some got stuff very wrong. If you look hard enough there are even defenders of Thac0...and that has become a D&D joke.

    I don't want to come here and find that tomorrow everyone agrees with me on everything, that would be boreing and weird. What I would like is for people to say if they don't like something, or disagree without adding "4e is the XXX of the editions"



    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    We don't do moderation by mob here, so that's not the right way to deal with a post you think is edition warring. That said - D&D 4th Edition was - and still is, as shown by this very post - very divisive. There's no real way to deny that, and it's certainly not a value judgement on your game tastes.
    1st this isn't about moderation by mob... I was told I read bad intnent where none exsiste (very well possible especially when I am depressed) so I am asking for an out side thought on what kind of intent and meaning I should read into this...

    and since you seame to agree that 4 is divisive (although I was taking more offense to the outlier part) I wounder so in your mind is 3.5 or path finder divisive?

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