5E Edition Wars, WHY? - Page 9
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMforPowergamers View Post
    and since you seame to agree that 4 is divisive (although I was taking more offense to the outlier part) I wounder so in your mind is 3.5 or path finder divisive?
    3.5 wasn't particularly (there was some division, with folks remaining with older editions, but not nearly as much). The big division came between 4E and Pathfinder; so yes, both of those games are divisive. The community split in half ("divided") between them. Were you not around at the time? That was - pretty much - the Edition War we keep talking about.

    As for "outlier" - again, that is not a value judgement. 4E is, indeed, an outlier - it's very different in design to the other editions of the game, including the current edition. That, incidentally, is why it was divisive.

    Notice that the words "better" or "worse" don't feature in any of that? "Divisive" and "outlier" are not value judgements. Neither of these things are anything to get upset about, and neither has any reflection on you, or your gaming tastes.
    Last edited by Morrus; Thursday, 22nd January, 2015 at 03:47 PM.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by painted_klown View Post
    Perhaps, I am way off base with this thought, but I can't help but think that some of the "edition warring" is caused by the time the player (or DM) was introduced to the game.

    Most people have a feeling of fondness to the product that introduced them to something. I see this happen a lot with music. Some fans like a bands first record the most, as that is how they were introduced to that band. Other fans have a later album as their favorite, a different album is how they were introduced to the band. That's not to say that they hate the rest of their albums, it's just that they prefer to listen to "the one that got them started".

    I imagine that it's the same way with D&D. People have fond memories of games played in their youth (feelings of nostalgia run strong), so in their mind, that was the "best" edition.

    See I had that theory when 4e game out. I started in 2e, but had played 1e and OD&D and other systems later on, but everyone I played with had started in 3.x, many have never played any RPG that wasn't 3.x D&D. When 4e game out it didn't seem any different than the 2e to 3e change and I adopted it right away. My players rejected it, said it was too different. I was shocked but blamed it on just sticking to what they had started with.

    But now, those same people (for the most part) have adopted 5e, and I have as well, I'm running a 5e game, I'm playing a 5e game, I enjoy 5e, but I'm having all these Grognard feelings about 4e, I miss it.

    I don't know that fits into the theory.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    3.5 wasn't particularly (there was some division, with folks remaining with older editions, but not nearly as much). The big division came between 4E and Pathfinder; so yes, both of those games are divisive. The community split in half ("divided") between them. Were you not around at the time? That was - pretty much - the Edition War we keep talking about.
    I very much was, and I think that still color my views (I wanted to play both at first but ended up firmly in the 4e camp)

    As for "outlier" - again, that is not a value judgement. 4E is, indeed, an outlier - it's very different in design to the other editions of the game, including the current edition. That, incidentally, is why it was divisive.
    maybe it is just me then, but I don't see 4e as any more of an outlier then 3e was...


    Notice that the words "better" or "worse" don't feature in any of that? "Divisive" and "outlier" are not value judgements. Neither of these things are anything to get upset about, and neither has any reflection on you, or your gaming tastes.
    then maybe I am reading too much into these things

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMforPowergamers View Post
    maybe it is just me then, but I don't see 4e as any more of an outlier then 3e was...
    4E is the game that dropped Vancian magic and created the encounter-daily-at-will action economy. It was a significant departure from the core system of editions 1-3, and to which 5E has since returned, and which Pathfinder retains. That's why it's an outlier - it's the one that's different.

    then maybe I am reading too much into these things

    Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...#ixzz3PYw9K1Iz
    I think you are if you're mentally adding words like "better" or "worse" to "divisive" and "outlier".

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    4E is the game that dropped Vancian magic and created the encounter-daily-at-will action economy.
    Weren't all of those things introduced in 3.5 with the Warlock in Complete Arcane and with Book of 9 Swords.


    And 5e hasn't returned to Vancian magic it's definitely a Vancian-ish hybrid.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream66_ View Post
    Weren't all of those things introduced in 3.5 with the Warlock in Complete Arcane and with Book of 9 Swords.
    Yeah; I was talking about the core rulebooks - the Player's Handbook. All editions have had optional experimental rules (remember Skills & Powers from 2E, for example?)

  7. #87
    Well I actually started in the Skills and Powers era, it was a couple years before I even touched a 2e PHB.

    That's what I was saying upthread, these editions evolve over time, S&P looked like 3e, Bo9S looked like 4e, The beginings of 5e in Essentials None of them were devisive major changes, they were gradual iterative changes.

    Sure if you compare PHB to PHB they look massive, but it's the same unfair comparision if I compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, or compare a 72 Olds to a Smart Car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dream66_ View Post
    Well I actually started in the Skills and Powers era, it was a couple years before I even touched a 2e PHB.

    That's what I was saying upthread, these editions evolve over time, S&P looked like 3e, Bo9S looked like 4e, The beginings of 5e in Essentials None of them were devisive major changes, they were gradual iterative changes.

    Sure if you compare PHB to PHB they look massive, but it's the same unfair comparision if I compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, or compare a 72 Olds to a Smart Car.
    I do want to also add a small bit of (I think) funny irony...

    back in 1997, I meet some new rpers When we started a college gameing club. we were playing d6 star wars but where prepping to change to every other week that and a D&D game. One of the girls (linda) asked "Are you going to play 3e or do you still do 2e?" and this confused us. It turned out they called phb or phb+complete book of X to be 2e, and Skills and power+ to be 3e.

    Over the years I meet her whole group, and when 2000 roled around they called 3e 4e... now adays they rp but not D&D I some times joke with linda and her husband we are trying 17e...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dream66_ View Post
    Sure if you compare PHB to PHB they look massive, but it's the same unfair comparision if I compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, or compare a 72 Olds to a Smart Car.
    I'm not sure where the concept of "fairness" fits in there? Calling two things similar or different is neither fair nor unfair. The concept doesn't even fit!

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    I never saw A-E-U-D as much of a departure from the norm. I mean we have had daily resources for many classes for awhile besides spells, barbarian rage, bard songs, paladin smites, ki points for monks and in 5e we still do, in fact with short rests it is now (at-will/every few encounters/daily) to me atleast it is not a departure from how D&D has always worked.

    But yeah the edition wars were at their highest with the move from 3.5 to 4e. I remember every change from 1e to 2e, 2e to skills and powers, then 3e, there was even a big to do when 3.0 became 3.5, and plenty of 4e fans didn't like essentials. It is all D&D to me enjoyed playing them all some more than most obviously but thats no reason to get crazy about it.

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