The all-new revised Anti-Paladin & Paladin core classes for review

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Please critique these two classes for balance/fun issues.

NOTE: Differences between this version and prior versions I recently posted to House Rules include fighter bonus feats every three levels beginning at 6th, staggered advancement of the Sacred Defense ability (+1 every 6 levels), more generous use of endurance spell, removal of dispel magic at 12th level and moving Transcendence to 20th level from 18th.

My co-DM thought the last version was still *TOO WEAK* and had no reason to advance past 6th level, so here is the new version...
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ANTI-PALADIN (core class)
Ambition, Greed, Lust. These are the three main
qualities of the anti-paladin. Few are corrupt or
mad enough to walk the anti-paladin’s path, but
those few are rewarded with the power to fulfil
their twisted desires with unholy power from
dark gods. The anti-paladin is nothing short of a
mortal fiend.

Adventures: Anti-paladins take their
adventures as excellent opportunities to advance
the agenda of their evil god and/or personal
goals to gain power and wealth. They will fight
to the death if backed into a corner with no hope
of escape, but prefer to sacrifice their
companions or take hostages to use as human
shields if that will allow them to flee. An
anti-paladin has a long memory and will plot
terrible vengeance upon those who force him to
abandon an adventure or mission.

Characteristics: Divine power protects the
anti-paladin and gives him special powers. It
wards off harm and engenders an unnatural aura
of despair and menace around the anti-paladin.
Finally, the anti-paladin can also use this power
to destroy others. Eventually, this power draws a
mighty steed to the anti-paladin and imbues that
mount with strength, intelligence and magical
protection.

Alignment: Anti-paladins must be of an evil
alignment, and they lose their divine powers if
they deviate from it. Additionally, an
anti-paladin swears to follow a code of conduct
that is in accordance with their alignment.

Religion: Anti-Paladins need not devote
themselves to a single deity. Devotion to evil is
enough for most. Those who align themselves
with particular religions form a strong defensive
arm of the church. Anti-paladins devoted to a
god are scrupulous in observing religious duties
and are welcome in every associated temple.

Background: Anti-paladins come in two molds:
the first are evil warriors who make a pact with
an evil deity, demon or devil in exchange for
their power; the second are those who are
chosen by an evil deity, demon or devil at birth
to become their champion.

Races: Humans, with their ambitious, power
hungry souls make the best and most frequently
encountered anti-paladins.

Other Classes: Anti-paladins see themselves as
superior to all other classes and act accordingly.
They generally see other anti-paladins as rivals,
but may develop some degree of comraderie if
they share the same religion and/or goals;
otherwise, they avoid each other. They get along
best with clerics and fighters of their own
religion. They hate paladins and clerics of good
alignment; an anti-paladin will try to kill them
at the earliest and most convenient opportunity
if possible. This does not mean they will attack
them on sight or even directly, but they will plot
their ruin and/or murder, possibly sending
anonymous underlings out to accomplish the
task, kidnapping their family, or by poisoning
them at an otherwise innocuous dinner party.

Abilities: Charisma increases the anti-paladin’s
self-protective abilities and undead
commanding. Strength is important for an
anti-paladin because of its role in combat. A
Wisdom score of 14 or higher is required to get
access to the most powerful anti-paladin spells,
and a score of 11 or higher is required to cast
any anti-paladin spells at all.

Alignment: Any evil.

Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con),
Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather
Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal
(Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Religion)
(Int), Knowledge (Undead) (Int), Profession
(Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int
modifer.

Weapons and Armor: Anti-Paladins are
proficient with all Simple and Martial Weapons,
and with Light, Medium and Heavy armor and
Shields.

Base Attack Bonus: As Fighter.
Saving Throws: As Cleric.

Anti-paladins receive a number of special
abilities at levels 1-6 and at every three levels
thereafter.

Level 1 Special Abilities:
detect evil/good/undead (at will), Divine Grace
(as paladin), Divine Health (as paladin), Poison
Use (as blackguard).

Level 2 Special Abilities:
Frightful Presence: Once per round you can, as
a free action, use your Frightful Presence. All
opponents within 30 ft. who have fewer levels
than you must make a Will save (DC 10 + class
level + Cha modifier. An opponent who fails the
save is shaken, suffering a -2 penalty to attack
rolls, saves and skill checks) for a number of
rounds equal to 1d6 + your Cha modifier.

Heroic Surge: You may take an extra partial
action in a round, either before or after your
regular actions. You can use this ability a
number of times per day, depending on your
level, but never more than once per round.
1st-4th level: 1/day; 5th-8th level: 2/day;
9th-12th level: 3/day; 13th-16th level: 4/day;
17th-20th level: 5/day.

Level 3 Special Abilities:
Command Undead (3/day)

Endurance (1/day as cleric of your class level).

Level 4 Special Ability:
Spell Use (as paladin but uses the blackguard
list) + access to one clerical domain of the
anti-paladin’s choice (must be offered by his
deity).

Level 5 Special Ability:
Special Mount.

Level 6 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +1 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 9 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Special Mount gains the
Fiendish template.

Level 12 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +2 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 15 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Lesser planar ally (1/day, but no
return service is required by the outsider
summoned).

Level 18 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +3 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 20 Special Ability:
Transcendence: Through long association with
his deity’s fiendish servants, and direct
intervention by his deity, the anti-paladin
transcends his mortal form and becomes a
divine creature. His type changes to outsider,
which means that he acquires certain
immunities and vulnerabilities based on his type
(see Native Outsider, under the planetouched
race description).
Upon achieving transcendence, the
anti-paladin’s appearance always undergoes a
minor physical change appropriate to his
alignment and deity. For example, small horns
may sprout from his forehead or his eyes may
glow red or become like those of a serpent.
Anyone who shares the anti-paladin’s patron
deity, including outsider servants of his patron,
immediately recognize his transcendent nature,
and he gains a +2 bonus on all Charisma-based
skill and ability checks in regard to these
creatures.

_________________________________________

PALADIN (variant core class)

Abilities: Charisma increases the paladin’s
self-protective abilities and undead turning.
Strength is important for an paladin because of
its role in combat. A Wisdom score of 14 or
higher is required to get access to the most
powerful paladin spells, and a score of 11 or
higher is required to cast paladin spells at all.

Alignment: Any good.

Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int),
Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha),
Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate
(Cha), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge
(Undead) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex),
Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int
modifer.

Base Attack Bonus: As Fighter.
Saving Throws: As Cleric.

Paladins receive a number of special abilities at
levels 1-6 and at every three levels thereafter.

Level 1 Special Abilities:
detect evil/good/undead (at will)
Divine Grace,
Divine Health,
Lay on Hands.

Level 2 Special Abilities:
Aura of Courage: The paladin is immune to fear
and all allies within 10 ft. of the paladin gain a
+4 morale bonus to saving throws vs. fear.

Heroic Surge: You may take an extra partial
action in a round, either before or after your
regular actions. You can use this ability a
number of times per day, depending on your
level, but never more than once per round.
1st-4th level: 1/day; 5th-8th level: 2/day;
9th-12th level: 3/day; 13th-16th level: 4/day;
17th-20th level: 5/day.

Level 3 Special Abilities:
Turn Undead (3/day)

Endurance (1/day as a
cleric of your class level).

Level 4 Special Ability:
Spell Use (as paladin) + access to one clerical
domain of the paladin’s choice (must be offered
by his deity).

Level 5 Special Ability:
Special Mount.

Level 6 Special Ability:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +1 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 9 Special Ability:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Special Mount gains the
Celestial template.

Level 12 Special Ability:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +2 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 15 Special Ability:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Lesser planar ally (1/day, but no
return service is required by the outsider
summoned).

Level 18 Special Abilities:
Fighter bonus feat (excluding weapon
specialization).

Sacred Defense +3 (to all saving
throws vs. divine spells).

Level 20 Special Ability:
Transcendence: Through long association with
his deity’s outsider servants, and direct
intervention by his deity, the paladin transcends
his mortal form and becomes a divine creature.
His type changes to outsider, which means that
he acquires certain immunities and
vulnerabilities based on his type (see Native
Outsider, under the planetouched race
description).
Upon achieving transcendence, the paladin’s
appearance always undergoes a minor physical
change appropriate to his alignment and deity.
For example, his eyes may glow with golden
light. Anyone who shares the paladin’s patron
deity, including outsider servants of his patron,
immediately recognize his transcendent nature,
and he gains a +2 bonus on all Charisma-based
skill and ability checks in regard to these
creatures.

_______________________________________

ANTI-PALADIN/PALADIN SPELLS PER DAY:
NOTE: Where 0+1 spells are given, that means the character only
gets bonus spells (from high WIS) plus his domain spell. A character without a bonus spell receives only a domain spell.

4th Level: 0+1 1st level spells
5th Level: 0+1 1st level spells
6th Level: 1+1 1st level spells
7th Level: 1+1 1st level spells, 0+1 2nd level
spells
8th level: 1+1 1st level spells, 0+1 2nd level
spells
9th level: 1+1 1st level spells, 1+1 2nd level
spells
10th level: 1+1 1st level spells, 1+1 2nd level
spells, 0+1 3rd level spells
11th level: 2+1 1st level spells, 1+1 2nd level
spells, 0+1 3rd level spells
12th level: 2+1 1st level spells, 1+1 2nd level
spells, 1+1 3rd level spells
13th level: 2+1 1st level spells, 1+1 2nd level
spells, 1+1 3rd level spells, 0+1 4th level spells
14th level: 2+1 1st level spells, 2+1 2nd level
spells, 1+1 3rd level spells, 0+1 4th level spells
15th level: 2+1 1st level spells, 2+1 2nd level
spells, 1+1 3rd level spells, 1+1 4th level spells
16th level: 3+1 1st level spells, 2+1 2nd level
spells, 2+1 3rd level spells, 1+1 4th level spells
17th level: 3+1 1st level spells, 3+1 2nd level
spells, 2+1 3rd level spells, 1+1 4th level spells
18th level: 3+1 1st level spells, 3+1 2nd level
spells, 2+1 3rd level spells, 2+1 4th level spells
19th level: 3+1 1st level spells, 3+1 2nd level
spells, 3+1 3rd level spells, 2+1 4th level spells
20th level: 4+1 1st level spells, 3+1 2nd level
spells, 3+1 3rd level spells, 3+1 4th level spells
 
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Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Maybe I should bump to the HD back to d10. Thoughts?

Getting people to play paladins or giving NPC paladins any respect is impossible for my group, since they suck so bad compared to fighters. The anti-paladin gives another option for evil characters and the revised paladin hopefully makes the class more fearsome and viable (and worthy of respect). This is maybe like what TSR and WoTC did with the cleric class, where no one will play them, so they kept upping their special abilities to entice player interest, LOL. Even so, not many people play them, even if they are the most powerful class in the game! :D
 

~Joseph~

First Post
I think first, cut the number of bonus feats, that's 5 now, that's a little much. What happened to smite evil and remove disease?
bring the skill points back down, the only reason I'd bring it up to 4/lvl is to help strengthan him, but with all the new abilities it's not necesary.

they're not bad classes but I still would opt for the original
 

drowdude

First Post
Normally I kinda dig the stuff you post man... but I gotta say that I think this is insane :p

Our group has had quite the opposite experience with Paladins. The PHB version is more than powerful enough IMO.

The only things we changed about them is giving them an option to trade out Remove Disease for additional Smite attempts and changing the mount to a Celestial Companion.

And those werent done because we thought they we underpowered... they just seemed kewler that way.




As far as your version goes... I would either give them d12 HD or the endurance power, not both.
There are numerous other things that I would change but thats the only thing I can suggest that is really "constructive" ;)
 
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Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Re: Re: The all-new revised Anti-Paladin & Paladin core classes for review

drowdude said:
Normally I kinda dig the stuff you post man... but I gotta say that I think this is insane :p

As far as your version goes... I would either give them d12 HD or the endurance power, not both.
There are numerous other things that I would change but thats the only thing I can suggest that is really "constructive" ;)

LOL! :D I was thinking the same thing, but opted in favor of "overpowered" rather than "underpowered" at least as my co-DM saw it... Anyway, to take your advice, I brought HD back to d10 and halved the number of skill points. Looking back on my previous version, I see my co-DM's point about them not having any reason to advance beyond 6th level (9th at most for the Mount upgrade), so I've left the fighter bonus feats in for now.
 






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