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Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 02:57 PM #1
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
How does a rogue fight the Undead?
Hey all! Okay, this is the situation I've found myself in:
I play a tiefling Fighter1/Ranger1/Rogue9, who's just gained the 9th rogue level. As she's ECL 12, she gains a feat. (We didn't know at first that an ECL character should only gain feats at class levels, so we've basically been considering the "tiefling level" as a class level in most respects.)
Her scores: Str 14, Dex 22 (with gloves +2), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12 (with periapt +2), Cha 18.
Her feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (short sword), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Initiative.
Now usually, she uses a short sword and buckler, springing in and out of range to deliver sneak attacks. Occasionally, she'll stick to a foe and dual-wield short swords.
However, our already undead-heavy campaign has recently become even more undead-heavy, and she's finding it harder and harder to contribute in combat. Her sneak attacks aren't effective, and undead in our campaign take 0% damage from piercing attacks. So out go her sneak attack and her short swords.
She's been using a heavy mace and buckler, but in this instance, she serves basically as a watered-down version of a fighter, with a worse BAB and HP.
What I'm asking for here are two things: 1. suggestions on how to make her more effective against undead. 2. suggestions on feats that would make her more effective against undead.
So far, all I've come up with are to up her Use Magic Device skill (to let her use a wand of magic missile and such) and get her a set of masterwork heavy and light maces, to dual-wield.
Any help would be much appreciated!signed Jere, Lord of Pendragon
"Raven dark but beautiful, in a malevolent sort of way;
With eyes that speak of wonders on the other side of Day.
She dances in the shadows where others fear to tread;
But though her touch may kill you, it's her love that you should dread."
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 03:04 PM #2
Convince your DMs to reasonably allow shortswords to do SOME damage? Heck, you can use a shortsword as a bludgeoning weapon if nothing else. (Perhaps not by the rules, but realisticly)
Beyond that, I dunno. Grab some maces, or take up a couple levels of monk and get some magic gloves.
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 03:40 PM #3
Like Tsyr said, "Grad some Maces..."
Undead are the bane of the Rogue. He deals with things (traps and devices) and people. I haven't seen any Feat that aid the rogue against the undead.
If you see that the undead situation is not going to getting better, think about taking a few levels of Cleric. You could follow a Trickters God. The Trickery Domain can be very useful to a Rogue. Depending on the gods in the campaign, your second domain could also be very usefull. And with your Roguess CHA, turning and distroying will be easier.
Last edited by Lunn; Sunday, 17th February, 2002 at 03:42 PM.
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 03:46 PM #4
Didn't they change the 0 damage from piercing attacks rule to half damage from piercing attacks, in the PHB errata? Not much, but still...
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 04:17 PM #5
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)
Use your use magic device skill... and wield a wand of cure moderate wounds! You'll do 2d8+3 to the first 50 undead you meet, AND you can heal your friends in the process!
Either that, or steal lots of stuff and buy yourself a cleric to follow you around.- Piratecat, EN World Admin. Now Kickstarting TimeWatch, a time travel game - please go check it out!
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 04:23 PM #6
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Half damage is only for skeletons. Wraith, Shadows, Wights, Zombies, Ghouls, Ghasts, Vampires etc etc. can all be normally hurt by piercing weapons. I would have a chat with the DM saying that it's hard to play a rogue without taking advantage of sneak attack, let alone that he is using a house rule which makes it even harder.
(edit : typo)
Last edited by Ravellion; Sunday, 17th February, 2002 at 04:24 PM."The best advice I ever got was from an elephant trainer in the jungle outside Bangalore. I was doing a hike through the jungle as a tourist. I saw these large elephants tethered to a small stake. I asked him, 'How can you keep such a large elephant tied to such a small stake?' He said, 'When the elephants are small, they try to pull out the stake, and they fail. When they grow large, they never try to pull out the stake again.' That parable reminds me that we have to go for what we think we're fully capable of, not limit ourselves by what we've been in the past." -Vivek Paul
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 04:54 PM #7
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
Or, with an 18 Cha, at 9th level, you go out and convince some clerics to come with you, or at least to make those wands of cure spells for you on the cheap, as you'll be using them to fight evil. Or, get yourself a cleric cohort....
To be successful in combat, a character only needs to contribute in some manner. That doesn't mean they need to contribute damage with their own hands...
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 05:02 PM #8
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 05:45 PM #9
Weapon Finesse (light mace) would help a lot against skeletons and other undead that are only affected by blunt weapons. Get a couple of Light Maces with Bane versus Undead and Holy properties, that would put some punch into your attacks.
You can use the Use Magic Device skill with Wands and Scrolls. Since you have a level of Ranger, you can automatically use any wand with a spell from the ranger list, which includes all the Cure spells up to Cure Serious Wounds and the Polymorph Self spell.
A rather interesting option with that would be getting a Wand of Holy Sword (Paladin 4th level spell) and use that on your maces.
A Wand of Halt Undead (Wizard Spell) can help. Once again, you would go through a lot of wands. Tome & Blood also has the Negative Energy Wave spell (4th level) that would allow you to Rebuke undead in a fairly large area.
Basically, Rogues hate having to fight undead, elementals and constructs. If that is all you face, you might want to start picking up a couple of levels of Cleric after making 10th level rogue, just so you can be more useful. With even one level of Cleric and a feat (think it is Divine Might), you could get a damage bonus against undead for a few rounds. Look in Defenders of the Faith for the feat.
Then ask the GM why he hates rogues so much. Seriously, in a campaign heavy with undead the Rogue is at a serious disadvantage over the other classes.
Sunday, 17th February, 2002, 06:28 PM #10
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Use your skills to help the party avoid the fights with undead.This is what happens when you fork a stranger in the alps.
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