5E Improved Find Familiar - Page 7
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  1. #61
    If a wizard wants a megafamiliar, why not make it a subclass, a la beastmaster ranger?
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaTarrasque View Post
    To be fair, it isn't too long before EB is better than the bladelock's sword (unless the DM gives out an extra special magical sword that would benefit the party way more if it went to the fighter) or the tomelock using shillelagh. There is a fairly small window where pact implement is the warlock's best combat option (or at least there was until the last warlock UA). The highly mobile invisible spy (and the invocations if you are dealing with a lot of outsiders) is the familiar's big contribution to the chainlock (or at least until [if] the BBoC gives us some new chainlock invocations).
    Depends on the Bladelock. Mine regularly did about 70 to 100 damage a round with his greatsword at level 10, but I can see where a dex based one would be better off with Eldritch Blast.

    Edit: Sorry, I misremembered - His average didn't climb that high until he got his hands on a legendary greataxe that did +1d12 lightning damage on a hit. Before that it was closer to 50-70 a round. A lot depended on critting or dropping a creature so he could get an extra bonus action attack, so I probably have some selection bias in my memory. I just remember him doing a lot of damage before I retired him.

    He did have an extra special legendary longsword at one point, but he passed it to the Barbarian who used a shield. The Fighter used polarms and didn't want the sword or the greataxe. This campaign did have an overabundance of legendary weapons floating around - including a legendary bow and warhammer that no one is currently using.
    Last edited by Caliban; Thursday, 9th March, 2017 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Crow View Post
    If a wizard wants a megafamiliar, why not make it a subclass, a la beastmaster ranger?
    Call it the Pokemon Wizard.
    Laugh The Old Crow laughed with this post

  4. #64
    I honestly feel like if a player wants a cooler familiar, let them have it. The familiar options don't really give a lot of fun ideas, and a lot of players just want something more unique. And as for the Chain-Lock, unless there's one in the party, why does it matter? If there was one, just give his familiar a buff of some sort. As long as the players are enjoying themselves, the rules should be flexible.
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  5. #65
    So it seems like this thread is full of hatemongers saying, "Don't touch my game! You'll ruin warlocks! The rules don't say you can do that!" All of which are missing the points that you are asking for homebrew rules and looking for a way to make the game more fun. Why are all you people so whiny!?

    As to the original question,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimstaff View Post
    So I'd like the more advanced familiars (the ones Warlocks can get) to be available to Wizards (especially Conjurers).

    Do you think making this a 3rd level or 5th level spell would be appropriate?

    Any balance issues I'm missing?
    I think scaling with level would be good. Here are some possible updates:

    You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes a creature form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel, or another Tiny CR 0 creature. ...

    You familiar improves with your spellcasting: you can cast this spell at the level of your highest level spell, including as a ritual. The CR of the familiar you conjure improves by one CR step per spell level: CR 0 at 1st level, CR 1/8 at 2nd level, CR 1/4 at 3rd, CR 1/2 at 4th, CR 1 at 5th, CR 2 at 6th, etc.

    Your familiar uses your proficiency bonus and adds it to its AC and gains your saving throw proficiencies.

    Your familiar gains one hit die per CR level it is below your character level - 4; e.g. if you are level 12 and you choose a CR 1/4 familiar, it gains (12 - 4) = CR 8 minus CR 1/4 = 9 hit dice.

    The range of this spell and of the communication feature of this spell doubles for each spell level above 1st.

    Warlocks with the Pact of the Chain may choose a familiar 2 CR levels higher at any level, and an extra two hit dice.

    Your familiar may take items it wears or carries with it to its pocket dimension, but only if the familiar is not encumbered and only if it could carry all of the items in the pocket dimension at once without being encumbered. A bag of holding, portable hole, or similar item can only enter or leave the pocket dimension if it is empty and cannot be used while there.
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  6. #66
    Ive always played it as a 3rd level ritual that a wizard must learn separate from find familiar and costs 100 gold per casting. But you can choose one of the special familiars. Locks still get it cheaper, only use a first level ritual, and can make attacks with it using pact of the chain.

  7. #67
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    Like @ro was saying this thread seems to be filled with people arguing about the rules when this looks like it's supposed to be advice for a homebrew rule.

    Overall i like the idea of raising the level and therefore using higher CRs for the familiar, but the Warlock would need to also benefit later on and have some small edge to make the Chain really worth it (although from what i've read the attacking seems to be really good as is.)

    I think the idea has potential and just needs to be refined a bit.

  8. #68
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    A necro thread resuscitated with "What they said" is not worth an argument.

  9. #69
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    This argument has never made sense to me. It's not a thing I've ever seen as complicated or vague.

    The wizard doesn't have an owl familiar, it has a fey/fiend/celestial that takes the form of an owl and uses owl stats & features. The warlock doesn't have an imp, it has a fiend that takes the form of an imp and uses imp stats & features (although arguably that's what an imp is.) In theory, you could have a fey imp, or even a celestial imp, as your warlock familiar.

    Having an actual imp, a quasit, a sprite, or a pseudodragon as your familiar isn't a class feature, any more than having an apprentice, or a page, or a torchbearer, or a bodyguard is. Sometimes a PC will run into an NPC that is agreeable to some sort of partnership or service arrangement, and that's what having a real imp as a familiar is all about. You have to find the NPC, determine what the NPC wants in exchange for service, and provide that. You have to be nice to the NPC, or it will leave or betray you. The DM is ultimately in control of the NPC, even if you the player "run" it in combat.

    A summoned familiar, by the spell or class feature, isn't an NPC. It is an extension of the character, and it is absolutely under the player's control just as the player's character that summoned it. The ability of an imp--a real imp--to serve as a spellcaster's familiar is not a function of the spellcaster's class features (other than, obviously, spellcasting); it is a function of the imp. The imp has an ability that lets it bind with a spellcaster and serve as its familiar, if the imp wants to and if its demands are met. If that changes, the imp (unlike a familiar summoned with the find familiar spell) can terminate the relationship.

    To say that the Pact of the Chain makes it impossible for any other class to have an imp familiar is like saying that the find steed spell means that no player character without that spell can have a warhorse, and find greater steed means that no other class can ever ride a griffon. That's complete crap. If you want to ride a warhorse (not a summoned celestial in the form of a warhorse) then you go find a warhorse, buy it, and get on. You might need to learn to ride it, but if your DM makes you have riding proficiency (animal handling? tool: saddle?) then that's a proficiency that you can pick up with a feat, training in downtime, or by doing a favor for a riding trainer (see training as treasure.) If you want to ride a griffon, you go find a griffon (or a griffon egg) and raise it, train it, or charm it somehow. If you want an imp familiar, you go find an imp and make a deal with it.

    The player's handbook is quite clear: the pact of the chain lets you have a fey spirit in the form of a pseudodragon, but it isn't a pseudodragon. A real pseudodragon is an NPC, not an extension of a PC by way of a class feature or spell. You aquire its services the same way you would any other NPC hireling/henchman/retainer, through compensation and persuasion. Has anyone ever seriously suggested that, unless you have the Noble background, you cannot possibly hire retainers? It just means you don't have retainers automatically--you have to spend your character's time and money to hook that up instead.

    If you want a hobgoblin retainer, go find a hobgoblin and persuade it to serve you. If you do, it has a trait that lets it do extra damage to enemies within 5 feet of you. If want an imp retainer, go find an imp and persuade it to serve you. If you do, it has a trait that lets it serve as your familiar if you're a spellcaster. This is just playing the game, simple as that.

    I don't understand how people think that they need a specific, detailed rule for everything in this game.

  10. #70
    Since XGtE has find greater steed, then find greater familiar could work as a separate spell. I would make it a 3rd level spell so that the chainlock gets his/her gig without competition for a couple of levels. It would give the chainlock familiars that can attack, but if chainlocks take it, they can add a spined devil, meenlock, or will o' the wisp to their list.
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