Master of Orion 3: A Collossal Disappointment

Tyler Do'Urden

Soap Maker
I don't like to give bad reviews. I'm generally not a very critical guy. But I'm in a really bad mood right now.

A few days ago, I picked up Master of Orion 3, a game that I had been anticipating since Master of Orion 2 came out seven years ago. I had been following the development of this game, on and off, for months. I'd stop by Quicksilver's web site and read their development dumps and message boards, devouring everything. It sounded like this was the game I'd been waiting years for- a strategy game that could top not only the original Master of Orion games, but Civilization II, Alpha Centauri, Master of Magic, Age of Wonders, and every other turn-based strategy game that I had burned countless hours playing.

The day finally came, and I ran off eagerly to Software Etc. to reserve the copy I had preordered two months earlier.

I came home, I installed the game.

I played for about an hour.

And I quit.

I don't know where to begin my litany of complaints about this game.

The ugly interfaces? Except for some of the 3d (which looks like it was rendered four years ago), the game looks like it could have been made around the same time as the original. The interface has all the visual appeal of accounting software.

The horrendous combat system? The space combat engine looks like a pathetic rip off of Star Wars: Rebellion (which wasn't a particularly good game either). It's nothing but dots firing lines at each other. The strong tactical combat system of two has been replaced with this... crap. The ground combat system is boring as well. I have no way of knowing how any of my units performed in a battle, if my strategies worked or not.

The automated AI? The game plays itself. I don't want to sit around and punch the "End Turn" button repeatedly, I want to make decisions- beyond setting policies that only result in subtle changes. If you want to see a good policy engine, look at the Social Engineering system from Alpha Centauri.

The planetary economic model? Rather than the Civilization-inspired system of Master of Orion II, we have sliders once again- which wouldn't be a bad thing, if it was possible to understand how the damn things balance out to begin with! Not only that, the infrastructure system is uninteresting, and all planets, despite their little details, don't seem distinctive at all. Moo2's planets were, in their little details, more interesting.

Shipbuilding? The shipbuilding screen is unintuitive and ugly. Why are the hulls for orbiting platforms given the same names as the hulls for starships? And why in the heck do they need engines- and what power setting should one give them? 1500? 1800? 1? 49? 63? 666? All of the weapons are essentially just guns with different numbers attached to them- in fact, there doesn't seem to be much technological distinctiveness in the game at all, which leads us to-

Research? One of the most exciting parts of the first two games (as well as many other strategy games) was developing new technologies- recieving research reports and picking new techs to pursue. That's gone now. Instead, you're innundated with reports of technologies being "made visible", "researched", "entering prototype phase", "being protested", etc. There is no decision making except for, you guessed it, adjusting the sliders. After seeing about 10 turns worth of tech reports, you learn to tune them out. Great job, guys.

Diplomacy? This was a strong suit in the previous games- and a weakness in the new game. Computer players declare war for no apparent reason- on any level! Early in the game, too, before anyone has a fleet- leading to wars that are little more than throwing spies at each other...

Spies? Another botched opportunity. You can hire a number of different types of spies (terrorists, more accurately) and insert them into enemy territory, where they sew fear and dissent, destroy buildings and ships- or do they? I'd get sitrep reports regarding the good work of my spies and my opponent's spies, and I'd still never be sure what they were accomplishing, unless they managed to kill one of my leaders...

Ahh, leaders. This was supposed to be one of the most interesting parts of the game (along with the ideology system, which was axed early on, long before the game went into beta testing). Instead, the council you get is little different from the planetary governors in Moo2, only the affect the whole empire. What I thought was going to be a panel of leaders with distinct personalities from an empire filled with distinct personalities, where I could hire, fire, and promote governors, admirals, generals, senators, company heads- no, all I got were a few % modifier "cards". Great.

The Orion Senate. Although I can see where this mechanic would be significant later in the game, having the Senate in at the beginning is a pain... and it actually costs race picks NOT to be counted as a member! (Most races have a random chance of being or not being a member at the begining of the game, but from what I can see, on easy level, everyone starts out a member). The fun of encountering all the other races in the galaxy as you expand across the darkness was spoiled- replaced with this annoying galactic UN, where the races submit bills and vote in ways that, typically, make no sense at all. And there isn't even an option in the startup menu "No Orion Senate"... :(


In other words, this game is a serious disappointment- and what's worse, they were promising that this game would be all about the "Experience", or the "Fifth X" as they were calling it. Unfortunately, rather than having an experience, one just drowns in boring details. The original two were more of an experience than this lousy excuse for a game.

Once again, one goes in the dustbin of disappointments, joining the shameful ranks of Rebellion, X-Com Apocalypse, Daikatana, Civilization: Call to Power, and all their unworthy ilk...
 

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Tyler Do'Urden said:

I played for about an hour.

And I quit.

I don't know where to begin my litany of complaints about this game.


People are saying you have to play the game longer and take the time to realize what's going on and decipher the gameplay. I still haven't decided if I'd buy it, I've just played on the copy my buddy bought.

The ugly interfaces? Except for some of the 3d (which looks like it was rendered four years ago), the game looks like it could have been made around the same time as the original. The interface has all the visual appeal of accounting software.

Yeah, it's not the best but a somewhat minor complaint compared to what follows.

The horrendous combat system? The space combat engine looks like a pathetic rip off of Star Wars: Rebellion (which wasn't a particularly good game either). It's nothing but dots firing lines at each other. The strong tactical combat system of two has been replaced with this... crap. The ground combat system is boring as well. I have no way of knowing how any of my units performed in a battle, if my strategies worked or not.

Someone said it was like watching a pong battle. The graphics for the space battles are microscopic but I guess that helps hide the defaults?

The automated AI? The game plays itself. I don't want to sit around and punch the "End Turn" button repeatedly, I want to make decisions- beyond setting policies that only result in subtle changes. If you want to see a good policy engine, look at the Social Engineering system from Alpha Centauri.

The viceroys which do the work for you are fine until you have something you want to do and they disagree. The AI WILL change your orders.

The planetary economic model? Rather than the Civilization-inspired system of Master of Orion II, we have sliders once again- which wouldn't be a bad thing, if it was possible to understand how the damn things balance out to begin with! Not only that, the infrastructure system is uninteresting, and all planets, despite their little details, don't seem distinctive at all. Moo2's planets were, in their little details, more interesting.

The AI does such a good job balancing things, like your budget, that trying to tweak them too much can actually hinder your development.

And I do wish you had more to look at as far as the planet surface or structures go.

Shipbuilding? The shipbuilding screen is unintuitive and ugly. Why are the hulls for orbiting platforms given the same names as the hulls for starships? And why in the heck do they need engines- and what power setting should one give them? 1500? 1800? 1? 49? 63? 666? All of the weapons are essentially just guns with different numbers attached to them- in fact, there doesn't seem to be much technological distinctiveness in the game at all, which leads us to-

What sucks is you used to be able to design ships to your taste. Now when you try to design them and click Confirm it almost always says the design isn't valid, but nothing provides information telling you why it's invalid.

Research? One of the most exciting parts of the first two games (as well as many other strategy games) was developing new technologies- recieving research reports and picking new techs to pursue. That's gone now. Instead, you're innundated with reports of technologies being "made visible", "researched", "entering prototype phase", "being protested", etc. There is no decision making except for, you guessed it, adjusting the sliders. After seeing about 10 turns worth of tech reports, you learn to tune them out. Great job, guys.

I have to agree that now researching tech is just another report that you flash through. Some items I am more interested than others, like getting Battleship technology, but I have to look for the report or trade for it. You can only decide what discipline is more important, not choose which individual techs you want.

Diplomacy? This was a strong suit in the previous games- and a weakness in the new game. Computer players declare war for no apparent reason- on any level! Early in the game, too, before anyone has a fleet- leading to wars that are little more than throwing spies at each other...

One thing they are working on for the patch is the "white peace" problem. This occurs when an empire declares war on you. And a few turns later ends the war. Only to declare war on you again the next turn. In a never ending cycle. The reason this happens is because if no military action takes place within a certain amount of time peace is automatically declared.

Spies? Another botched opportunity. You can hire a number of different types of spies (terrorists, more accurately) and insert them into enemy territory, where they sew fear and dissent, destroy buildings and ships- or do they? I'd get sitrep reports regarding the good work of my spies and my opponent's spies, and I'd still never be sure what they were accomplishing, unless they managed to kill one of my leaders...

You have to constantly recruit spies because they have short life spans. Not only can they be killed while on assignment, they can die of old age, just sitting at home. One cool thing is in the sitreps, you'll sometimes read a story like this: "Your spy managed to persuade enemy scientists not to show up for work. Permanently."

Ahh, leaders. This was supposed to be one of the most interesting parts of the game (along with the ideology system, which was axed early on, long before the game went into beta testing). Instead, the council you get is little different from the planetary governors in Moo2, only the affect the whole empire. What I thought was going to be a panel of leaders with distinct personalities from an empire filled with distinct personalities, where I could hire, fire, and promote governors, admirals, generals, senators, company heads- no, all I got were a few % modifier "cards". Great.

Unfortunately, the really good leaders seem to attract assassins and die easily. Spies didn't seem to want to touch my +5 % to recreation leader, but 1 turn after I got the +1 to research for each population, he was killed.

The Orion Senate. Although I can see where this mechanic would be significant later in the game, having the Senate in at the beginning is a pain... and it actually costs race picks NOT to be counted as a member! (Most races have a random chance of being or not being a member at the begining of the game, but from what I can see, on easy level, everyone starts out a member). The fun of encountering all the other races in the galaxy as you expand across the darkness was spoiled- replaced with this annoying galactic UN, where the races submit bills and vote in ways that, typically, make no sense at all. And there isn't even an option in the startup menu "No Orion Senate"... :(

If you don't want to deal with the senate and simply conquer the universe, you have a choice in the options to turn off, "Win by becoming President of Orion Senate". Personally I think I would prefer not being in the senate to begin, that way you don't automatically start knowing the other races who can then declare war and start the "white peace" crap that I mentioned earlier. On the other hand, it can be hard to join the senate after the game starts. Another empire has to nominate you for membership and then another empire must Second the proposal. Finally they vote on whether to let you in or not.

In other words, this game is a serious disappointment- and what's worse, they were promising that this game would be all about the "Experience", or the "Fifth X" as they were calling it. Unfortunately, rather than having an experience, one just drowns in boring details. The original two were more of an experience than this lousy excuse for a game.

My recommendation to anybody would be to play the game before buying it. I still haven't made up my mind one way or the other to buy it. I was really looking forward to it but after playing 3 games over about 9 hours and watching 2 friends play 3 games, I just feel like something is missing and whatever that is, is keeping me from buying it.
 

Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
As a big MOO fan this game has disappointed me too. I played three days none stop hoping to climb the mountain of understanding it (and I mastered CC2).

Tech tree - from everything I have found and seen everyone get the same tech, it is just researched at different rates. No real strategy.

Replay - change race, change galaxy but game pretty much is the same, at least it has been in mine.

Ship Design - no fun. I love putting together ships in MOO2. Also really unable to see the ship in the little window, needs more ship images.

Ship Combat - give me a endless table top compared to this, I would perfer point and click knowing my moves and weapons fired than just watching.

I will play some more for at least a week but this game fails to me.
 
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Endur

First Post
Sadly Concur

I've been waiting for MOO3 ever since MOO2 came out. I loved MOO and MOO2 and Master of Magic as well. (MOM2 is the real sequel I'm waiting for ... Torin the chosen, etc.)

Unfortunately, MOO3 leaves a lot to be desired.

I like having macro-managers -- I don't want to have to manage every colony. I think the Graphics are better than the predecessor. And the combat system is better.

But the "fun" has vanished. I'm not sure why, but its not there.

Part of it is the silly white peace stuff and minimal diplomacy, but that happens in every sci-fi diplomacy sim I've seen.

The Ship Building AI makes no sense. Why are my planetary managers still producing starships armed with laser cannons, when I can design ion cannon battleships?

I think I need immediate feedback. Sort of like Diablo, where you get immediate gratification in bashing some bad guys a couple of minutes after you start the game.

Wars in MOO take forever to get started, and once they start, it takes a long time to conquer an enemy system.

The Smallest game in Moo3 is huge ... too many stars. There should be a small game possible with half a dozen or a dozen stars and just a few races.

The game also needs a tutorial other than the master notes. Something fun that walks a new player through the game.

Even with all the delegation of management, it feels like I'm playing a simulation and not a game.

Tom
 

reiella

Explorer
Well might as chime in since I've been playing MOO3 for past week and enjoying it :).

Space Battles are the way they are unforunately due to low sys specs from the original producer edict (Same reason as the 800x600 res), and also more so because Leviathans are huge... It still isn't too hot graphically though (Ah the beauty of a LR Army of Leviathan class ships with Ultra Spinal Stellar Converters is fun though).

The ai perfers to build ships it can churn out quickly, although you can typically shift the military queues fairly easily (Sort planets by industry, select top three and go from there). Setting the dev plans properly is tricky as well (and annoying with the interface there).

Course that said, once the game loses someone's interest, it's very difficult for it to recapture (it's a 4x game, not a whole deal of interesting things happen to snag your interest).

Replay can be quite fun and at least to me it feels more significant with the differences between Combat races (Sakkra), Diplomacy Races (Imsaeis), and the spying races. And of course the quirks of the different races to begin (Harvesters, Cybernetics, Geodics for the most part). Then again, it's a 4x game, the game will play the same pretty much each time.

The 'give it time' comments come from a percieved harsh learning curve (lack of feedback for some situations, the UI).

Currently there are a few third party mods that help a bit (stuff that adds more detail to the Tech Matrix and Encyclopedia so you know what's happening more often).

Spying ... well spying is important. If you ahve a leader you like, always keep at least two political spies in your reserve (and watch their luck, when it hits 0, they retire/die/fade away), but at the same time don't worry too much about the leaders, they typically die within 30 turns of natural causes anyway. If you start out in the Senate, expect rampant espionage though (start building your defensive spies from turn 1). A quick tip if you're really suffering from spies, ramp your Oppressometer up for a few turns, it does hinder spies alot, although you may have to go through a few government changes later on to fix your heavy foot of government.

Tutorial would be good.

General suggestion is to wait it out, give it a shot after a couple patches so that the actual bugs currently don't annoy you :). Course I have fun with it now, but that is just a difference of opinion mostly :).

[ Edit : Add ]
And a big suggestion... Don't sweat the little things. Sometimes you have to, and it sucks (Fleet Deployment, the small Spy queue), but for the most part you can get away with not worrying about it.
 
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