Illithid vs DR

Dwarmaj · Feb 18, 2002

Would an Illithid be able to perform brain extraction if it can't get through Damage Reduction?

The tentacles do 1d4+1, would each tentacle have to beat DR or would the combined attached tentacles have to beat the DR?

Dwarmaj

kreynolds · Feb 18, 2002

The illithid must get through damage reduction first. If DR negates damage from an attack, it negates most secondary effects as well. In the case of the Illithid's tentacles, I would say that he would have to get through your DR. Otherwise, his tentacles just slap you over the head. Unless, of course, there is some hidden note that Illithid tentacles bypass all damage reduction.

Phasmus · Feb 18, 2002

I would rule that attaching a tentacle does not require that the target take damage. Just because the victim can ignore damage from being swatted by a tentacle (or from any other damage associated with any other creatures' grapple attempts) it doesn't mean the grapple itself doesn't work. DR is not associated with immunity to grappling, just any damage that may come along with it. If the Illithid can initiate and maintain a grapple, it can extract its target's brain.

Admittedly, I have a bit of a pro-Illithid bias.

Regards,

Phasmus
aka Don'Calamari

kreynolds · Feb 18, 2002

Phasmus is right. In the case of grappling, DR does not apply. DR only applies when an attack requires damage to begin a secondary effect, such as a poisoned stinger. If the stinger attack fails to penetrate your DR, you are not poisoned.

Dwarmaj · Feb 18, 2002

I agree they can grapple, but...

I agree that DR doesn't give immunity to grappling, but how can the Illithid perform the extraction if it can't get through the DR?

My take on it was that the Illithid used it's tentacles to pry open the skull and remove the brain. Since Illithids don't have DR, they shouldn't be able to crack open a skull unless they can get through the Damage Reduction.

It came up in our gaming session this afternoon and we discussed it for several minutes. We decided to error in the PCs favor and not allow extraction (the PC had 10/+5 DR).

Dwarmaj

kreynolds · Feb 18, 2002

Just checked out the monster. The Illithid's Extract ability is not based on damage, only a grapple, improved grapple, I might add. So, unfortunately for your players, DR does not apply. Congratulate them for me. They got away lucky.

Xarlen · Feb 18, 2002

Those tentacles really ain't that strong.

I origionally saw it as they wiggle the tentacles into your skin (Through various holes, pours, and whathaveyous), wiggled them up to your brain, and sucked it through their tentacles. But, later, found out they eat it with their beaks. So, they more or less push it out your nose.

Moleculo · Feb 18, 2002

I am not sure where i read it, but i could swear that the tentacles produced a very potent acid that instantly burrowed through a skull, but was neutralized as quickly as it was produced. Jeez i wish i could remember where i read that. :/

jake

Xarlen · Feb 18, 2002

I remember in the books (Atleast in the Salvator ones), Illithids would slide their tentacles under your skin.

hong · Feb 18, 2002

It's true that DR doesn't help against a grapple check. However, note in the description of the mind flayer's abilities in the MM:

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the mind flayer must hit a Small to Large creature with its tentacle attack. ... If it gets a hold, it attaches the tentacle to the opponent's head.

After a successful grab, the mind flayer can try to attach its remaining tentacles with a single grapple check.

To me, that suggests that the mind flayer's Improved Grab would not work on a creature with DR, since the ability requires that the mind flayer hit with its normal attack first. Thus, the Extract ability wouldn't come into play either, since _that_ requires all tentacles to be attached. If it was already grappling, however (ie it managed to make a grapple check normally) then it could make grapple checks as normal to attach all its tentacles.