D&D 5E Magic Item Math of 5e

MwaO · Mar 26, 2016

Us said:
Thanks so much for the math to OP and the resurrection. This is a good baseline to operate off of.

What I tend to do is 1 tailored magic item at some point in the campaign for each player and the rest random. Seems to work out as the player is happy and randomness creates interesting situations.

Thanks! As a good guideline, you should expect to roll 9 times on Table F, 5 times on Tables G, H, and I each.

You'd be surprised over a party of 4 just how often people ought to end up happy with what they get.

S'mon · Mar 26, 2016

MwaO said:
Either PCs getting 5 items over 20 levels is a problem - because things will break and the DM will need to up the challenge of the game dramatically or PCs barely getting any items is a problem - because the game will be far too tough and the DM will need to downgrade the challenge of the game.

No, it doesn't work like that IME. Items don't make that much difference.

GX.Sigma · Mar 26, 2016

MwaO said:
Either PCs getting 5 items over 20 levels is a problem - because things will break and the DM will need to up the challenge of the game dramatically or PCs barely getting any items is a problem - because the game will be far too tough and the DM will need to downgrade the challenge of the game.

It's the first one, in case anyone is wondering.

AaronOfBarbaria · Mar 27, 2016

GX.Sigma said:
It's the first one, in case anyone is wondering.

No it isn't.

At least, not unless you are being specific as to which 5 permanent items each character is getting. If the 5 items involve +s to this and that, bonus damage, or significant amounts of extra combative spells every day, that one thing (and it may or may not be a problem, depending on how the DM runs the game and what the goals of play are where encounter design is concerned) - but if the 5 items are things like a bag of holding, amulet of proof against detection and location, boots of speed, cap of water breathing, and a decanter of endless water that's an entirely different thing (not the only items that fit, mind you, just the first five I thought of), and it's almost certainly not going to cause any kind of problems.

Maxperson · Mar 27, 2016

yakuba said:
Where 5e actually falls down is that there aren't good guidelines for how to adjust to more or less magic even though that necessity is acknowledged. Fortunately, IME it actually isn't very hard at all to adjust to additional magic in the party (Lvls 1-12), but a good set of guidelines should have been provided without me needing figure out for myself as I go along.

Where is that necessity acknowledged? My understanding is that magic items are optional and you can run the game just fine without them, not that I would.

Maxperson · Mar 27, 2016

GX.Sigma said:
It's the first one, in case anyone is wondering.

Magic items are gravy, not required from what was told to us by the game designers. You can get 0 magic items and the game won't be too tough and the second option is not true. Aaron stated why the first isn't true.

Just be careful with what you hand out and when.

aco175 · Mar 27, 2016

AaronOfBarbaria said:
How does it seem to be too much? What complaints are your players making regarding how much magical stuff their characters have?
Can you elaborate on the problem? If it is that the players are feeling they have to make hard choices between attuning to this item or that, that is a large part of why the attunement rule exists in the first place - so that there is actually a choice being made, rather than every item the party finds being an automatic boost to the party's capabilities.

None of the players are complaining, I was just commenting on the math provided.

The problem with 3 attuned items is that the items are not that powerful in my opinion to make them limited to only 3. I know I can do away with the rule if I do not like it, but in theory I do like the rule. I may change it to 4 or 5 items or something like 4e with slots for each location.

I'm A Banana · Mar 27, 2016

MwaO said:
Either PCs getting 5 items over 20 levels is a problem - because things will break and the DM will need to up the challenge of the game dramatically or PCs barely getting any items is a problem - because the game will be far too tough and the DM will need to downgrade the challenge of the game. You don't need to have a +X weapon to cause mathematical shifts in party effectiveness.

OR, neither one is a problem because the game isn't balanced on the head of a pin, it's balanced with a broad field of acceptable results that break nothing.

A party gets a bunch of powerful items and feels awesome and kicks butt? Sounds fun. If it gets to be a problem, that's why magic items are in the DM's hands: you stop giving them out and you even consider what could make you lose them.

A party gets a few low-powered items and has to rely on class abilities instead? Just fine. If it gets to be a problem, that's why magic items are in the DM's hands: you give out more.

And if magic items are always extra sauce and the DMG identifies the typical campaign as getting 24 helpings of extra sauce, you'd think the DMG would call that out so no one got surprised...

Also, I'd note that you might expect about 1 in 10000 games to only find a single +1 weapon - and that's in the context that you might expect 2000 out of 10000 games to not only find +3 weapons, but belts of giant strength or books that further bend or break the expected values...

If YOU'RE that 1 in 10,000 game, it doesn't really matter to you what other tables might be doing.

And 24 helpings of extra sauce isn't a problem, in part because it's not reliable. Sometimes you get +1 gear. Sometimes you get a half-dozen driftglobes. Getting an item that is perfectly suited to your character is RARE.

GX.Sigma · Mar 27, 2016

AaronOfBarbaria said:
No it isn't.

At least, not unless you are being specific as to which 5 permanent items each character is getting. If the 5 items involve +s to this and that, bonus damage, or significant amounts of extra combative spells every day, that one thing (and it may or may not be a problem, depending on how the DM runs the game and what the goals of play are where encounter design is concerned) - but if the 5 items are things like a bag of holding, amulet of proof against detection and location, boots of speed, cap of water breathing, and a decanter of endless water that's an entirely different thing (not the only items that fit, mind you, just the first five I thought of), and it's almost certainly not going to cause any kind of problems.

Well, yeah, obviously items that don't affect the math don't affect the math. I thought that went without saying.

Azzy · Mar 27, 2016

S'mon said:
No, it doesn't work like that IME. Items don't make that much difference.

True. Even items with a +3 bonus have less impact than Adv/Dis. And most other items tend to expand a PC's abilities in a lateral manner, rather than upward.

D&D 5E Magic Item Math of 5e

MwaO

Adventurer

S'mon

Legend

GX.Sigma

Adventurer

AaronOfBarbaria

Adventurer

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

aco175

Legend

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich

GX.Sigma

Adventurer

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

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