D&D 5E Convince me we're doing the Warlock wrong

Lord Vangarel · Apr 18, 2015

In our campaign playing through ToD one of the characters is a warlock. What we're seeing is very little variety (small selection of spells) limited power (cast two spells and then it's time for a rest) and little in the way of non-magical combat ability.

Often after one encounter the player is reduced to eldritch blast or is pushing for a rest. What's others experiences and are we doing it wrong?

Sunseeker · Apr 18, 2015

Where's their cantrips?

Lord Vangarel · Apr 18, 2015

He has six (pact of the tome) but nothing compares to eldritch blast at 7th level which grants 2 blasts for 1d10+3 each. This is part of the problem once his 2 spells are used it's round after round of eldritch blast.

Mirtek · Apr 18, 2015

Don't think you're doing anything wrong, except maybe your expectations.

It's like complaining that the champion fighter is always hitting things with his weapon or the ranger firing his bow most of the time.

Inebriated Alhoun · Apr 18, 2015

Pretty much what Mirtek said. Currently playing one myself. I suspected they played more like the martial classes with a couple of nice tricks per encounter. Seems to be how it's working out so far, at least for me.

Falling Icicle · Apr 18, 2015

I suspect that the developers thought short rests were going to be much more common than they are. The UA class design article highlights their thinking on the class:

"Warlocks have a unique spellcasting method, and they rely on being able to cast a smaller number of spells more frequently."
"The warlock spell list was carefully cultivated to avoid including spells that might become annoying if cast too often at the table."

The thing is, they couldn't be more wrong about how the warlock is in actual play (at least from my experience). Warlocks don't get to cast spells more often. It actually feels like the exact opposite. Warlocks cast their 2 spells, and then they have nothing else to do but use cantrips. With short rests taking 1 hour, I've rarely seen groups take more than one or two per day. So the reality is warlocks end up having maybe 4-6 total spells in an entire adventuring day throughout most of their career, and they have to rely entirely on cantrips the rest of the time. I really wish they had let us try out the warlock back during the public play test. If any class needed play testing, it was the warlock with its unique spell slot mechanic.

Fildrigar · Apr 18, 2015

Falling Icicle said:
I suspect that the developers thought short rests were going to be much more common than they are. The UA class design article highlights their thinking on the class:

"Warlocks have a unique spellcasting method, and they rely on being able to cast a smaller number of spells more frequently."
"The warlock spell list was carefully cultivated to avoid including spells that might become annoying if cast too often at the table."

The thing is, they couldn't be more wrong about how the warlock is in actual play (at least from my experience). Warlocks don't get to cast spells more often. It actually feels like the exact opposite. Warlocks cast their 2 spells, and then they have nothing else to do but use cantrips. With short rests taking 1 hour, I've rarely seen groups take more than one or two per day. So the reality is warlocks end up having maybe 4-6 total spells in an entire adventuring day throughout most of their career, and they have to rely entirely on cantrips the rest of the time. I really wish they had let us try out the warlock back during the public play test. If any class needed play testing, it was the warlock with its unique spell slot mechanic.

Two short rests per long rest is the assumption. They pretty much should be spamming cantrips unless they *need* to cast a bigger boom.

Mephista · Apr 18, 2015

Part of the thing with the warlock is that its actually meant to be a kind of hybrid between its 3e and 4e version. The 3e version is an eldritch blaster, with a few tricks to back them up. The 4e version (which you see when we do the short-rest-per-encounter hack in the DMG) acts like an AEDU caster. And, yes, it does act that way with Hex up for the adventuring day, and enough spell slots to cast encounter spells, before falling back on at will shots.

In the default game, your eldritch blast is really the only attack cantrip the tome warlocks use. Everything else is pretty much utility. Even with the Fiend Pact, you really go with just the fireball spell and ignore the other AoE damages.

JackOfAllTirades · Apr 18, 2015

I made Dex my Warlock's 2nd highest stat after Charisma and went with the Blade Pact at 3rd level, using a finesse weapon. Then I got the Medium Armor feat at 4th level, and the Thirsting Blade Invocation at 5th level.

Turns out Warlocks can fight after they use up their spells: I've got a good AC, decent hit points, and (for now) as many attacks as the Fighter. Also, everyone thinks I'm an Eldritch Knight. (My character lies a lot. Haha.)

Edited to add: I'm not gonna say you're doing it wrong. I'm just saying there are lots of ways to play a warlock, and so far it sounds like you've only tried one of them. Don't hesitate to change things up if you think of something better.