What's the best system for doing Star Trek?

aramis erak · Jun 6, 2015

innerdude said:
LOL, ironically I would say the exact same thing about GURPS Prime Directive. I really dislike GURPS as a system, but for the right type of Trek game, it would be a very good choice.

Though having just Googled it, I didn't realize there's a D20 Modern version of Prime Directive as well.......and, well, that's just about the worst idea for a Trek game I can think of. Having had some experience with D20 Modern it's just a bad system to begin with, I don't care what coat of paint you put on it. There's way, way too much D&D detritus attached to that system.

(Also had to step in and defend my beloved Savage Worlds. I'm a huge fan and think it's a fantastic system. But as much as I love it, it wouldn't be my first choice to run a Star Trek game.)

GPD is just a poor choice all around, too. It's GURPS Light included, sure, but it's not got support for active duty play in mind, the template prices are all over the freaking map, and the weapon damages are insufficient to emulate any of the shows. Plus, there's no ship combat tie in, and no design system tie-in, so the biggest strengths of GURPS are lost by virtue of not actually being able to do a major part of the universe. In no small part, its non-integration with ship combat is a bold faced (and openly so) plea for the user to "Go buy our other games, dammit!" Ignoring completely that the other games don't do what is needed. And it does very little to make GURPS do Trek better. It gives personal weapons, an overview of the SFU ships, templates for most (not all) of the major races,

I'm not too fond of some of the choices made in the racial templates, either. Most of them make me wonder who's been smoking what at ADB...

In fact, without the prime team rationale, none of the Prime Directive games are worthwhile for Trek-as-trek, and the prime team rationale is mostly absent in GPD (and PD20)...

But, hey... there are whole hate threads about it buried over on SJG... http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=39679 is one such. Guy thought it was Real Trek and was pissed when he figured it out. Not helped at all by the crankiness squad reiterating the same refrain at him over and over...

Veander · Jun 12, 2015

Aside from my wife, I doubt I could get any of my gamers to play a solid Star Trek campaign. Personally I'd love it. I'd totally blow up Vulcan too. Hehe.

But as to the discussion at hand, what about d20 modern?

innerdude · Jun 13, 2015

I just have very little good to say about D20 modern. While my experience with it is hardly extensive, I think I have enough actual "play time" with it to say that there's not a single RPG genre or setting where I would point to D20 Modern and say, "That's hands down the best system to get the experience you want."

A class-based system, using BAB, Hit Points, and Saving Throws in a modern or futuristic setting just feels.....off. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the whole exercise was just frustrating to me.

Star Wars Saga occasionally had the same problem when I played it, to be honest, though Saga at least makes some concessions for "autofire" weapons damage, and the character building is vastly more cohesive (though still clunky for sci-fi compared to using a skill-based system). So frankly, if you're insistent on using a d20 system for sci-fi, I'd start with Star Wars Saga and backtrack from there, rather than start with d20 Modern.

TrippyHippy · Jun 14, 2015

Traveller. If Traveller: Prime Directive ever gets printed it may even prove that point….

aramis erak · Jun 14, 2015

TrippyHippy said:
Traveller. If Traveller: Prime Directive ever gets printed it may even prove that point….

Doubtful. It will have all the issues of Prime Directive's "Not Really Trek" and/or "Only TOS/TAS", coupled with Mongoose Traveller's poor handling of stun weapons and mediocre ship combat. Further, it's likely to use the point build option, thus losing the most distinctive part of Traveller.

http://zozer.weebly.com/uploads/3/4/3/3/3433372/uss_high_guard.pdf has a good CGen sequence for modification of CT Bk 5. It lacks implementation of characters, so it's only a start point.

Using MGT Core and Bk2, the Fed CA is roughly 17,000 Td, mounts 3 capital ship bridges, 6x PA bays, 2x heavy missile bays, a J6 Warp Drive (see CRB 109), PP 6, a bunch of sensor drones, and a roughly 325 ton shuttle bay (plus below deck storage for at least 4 shuttles). The shuttles are roughly 5 Td each, with warp and impulse drives; so they take about 12 Td in ready storage. Shields are white globes - treat as black globes that don't block sensors.

So, we need impulse drives - Call impulse about the same size as M-Drives, but requiring fuel at the same rate as the PP.
Plants are antimatter with small fusion backup plants.

For personal phasers - stun rating is 1d per setting (thus force 1 phaser stun is 1d of stun, which is the penalty to an End test to stay conscious). Higher ratings do about 2x (setting number -1)... noting that TNG hand phasers are limited to setting 16 for both pistol and rifles... but hand phasers get only (IIRC) 1-2 & 4-8. You can find the power use in the TNG Tech Manual. TOS era probably runs 1-2 & 4-6 for hand, 1-8 for pistol, and 1-12 for "rifle"...
Ranges should compare to about 2/3 of laser pistol, same as laser pistol, and same as laser carbine.

Beleriphon · Jun 17, 2015

innerdude said:
I just have very little good to say about D20 modern. While my experience with it is hardly extensive, I think I have enough actual "play time" with it to say that there's not a single RPG genre or setting where I would point to D20 Modern and say, "That's hands down the best system to get the experience you want."

I like D20 Modern, and it works best as D&D + Normal World mashups. Which quite frankly is exactly what the game is, so I suppose it works well for that.

Star Wars Saga occasionally had the same problem when I played it, to be honest, though Saga at least makes some concessions for "autofire" weapons damage, and the character building is vastly more cohesive (though still clunky for sci-fi compared to using a skill-based system). So frankly, if you're insistent on using a d20 system for sci-fi, I'd start with Star Wars Saga and backtrack from there, rather than start with d20 Modern.

It also has the benefit of emulating a very specific type of game, rather than trying to appear generic. If one wanted to use a D20 derivative Mutants and Masterminds 3E is a good place to start. Of course its really better for character level stuff, largely becase as a superhero game it glosses over the details of vehicle to vehicle combat largely becuase an expected character is the guy that juggles aircraft carriers.

overgeeked · Jul 4, 2015

There's also Where No Man Has Gone Before, Far Trek, and Lasers and Feelings.

Though I'd probably run Trek with Firefly or FAE. Though FAE is taking the lead because Firefly's mechanics push the kind of rolling disaster indicative of that show, which wasn't much present in any iteration of Trek. Though I've found more players interested in Firefly as a game system than those interested in FAE.

Also a side question about hacks and the recent Ennies kerfuffle, so has the rhetoric of all fan-made game creators are IP thieves and monsters died down enough yet to start honestly talking about fan-made hacks without the torches and pitchforks squad coming round?

aramis erak · Jul 4, 2015

overgeeked said:
There's also Where No Man Has Gone Before, Far Trek, and Lasers and Feelings.

Though I'd probably run Trek with Firefly or FAE. Though FAE is taking the lead because Firefly's mechanics push the kind of rolling disaster indicative of that show, which wasn't much present in any iteration of Trek. Though I've found more players interested in Firefly as a game system than those interested in FAE.

Also a side question about hacks and the recent Ennies kerfuffle, so has the rhetoric of all fan-made game creators are IP thieves and monsters died down enough yet to start honestly talking about fan-made hacks without the torches and pitchforks squad coming round?

CBS has a relatively lax Web Policy. Starbase Studios has it on one of their pages.
It boils down to:

No screenshots
No selling anything
No direct donation link based upon your stuff.
No JJ-Trek
Acknowledge CBS's ownership and your not trying to challenge that (their legal folk have a disclaimer they prefer)...
Claim no officialness.

I am not a lawyer, and I am especially not YOUR lawyer.

The post over at Starbase Studios: http://starbasestudios.net/cbs.html
It's actually focused upon fan films, but CBS has been real quiet about fan RPG's.

Now, FASA Trek had it's license pulled in the early 90's. It's all supposed to be either dead tree or deleted. So... if it shows up online, they're going to go after it when they become aware of it. It was grand stuff... but it's no longer licensed, and it uses a lot of images that fall under both Trademark and Copyright.

Best bet is a fan clone.

overgeeked · Jul 22, 2015

Oh, there's also a newer Powered by the Apocalypse game called Uncharted Worlds that would certainly fit the bill. It's more geared toward the Star Wars fringe, Firefly, or Cowboy Bebop style of things, but I'm sure it would be easy enough to use for standard Trek.

pickin_grinnin · Jul 27, 2015

These days I mostly go with d6 for most games. It's very flexible and adaptable to almost any style of play, action resolution (including combat) is quick and easy, and it's easy to extend it in any way you want (adding magic, superpowers, etc.).