Non Human Languages (was inflected languages)

Skade · Mar 27, 2003

Edit: So the conversation might be on topic after all. I originally asked simply, if there were languages that did not use inlfection, or as I quickly learned intonation. Humans apparently may not need such things, but few languages do not use them to one degree or another. Japanese being theonly example of a real world language that does not necesaruily require it, but still uses it regualrly.

So, would non human languages use intonation or inflection? Celestial, Draconic, the Black Speech, Slaracian, or Igna for that matter, or maybe a complex language elves don't teach the petty small humans?

Original post: A recent argument with my roommate leads to the question, are there any languages that do not depend on inflection? The argument stems from whether or not English does require the use of inflection so as to not upset or offend a person when making a joke which might be percieved as snide.

We see this all the time here on the boards, which is why emoticons are so prevalent. Even so, those emoticons which should serve as a means of expressing say a big grin, could be used to describe sarcasm in certain situations.

The roommate in question does not inflect anything by the way. Excitement and anger sound exactly the same.

Renaissance Man · Mar 27, 2003

Not the answer you're looking for, I'm sure, but computer languages perhaps? Binary code, et al? Then of course, there's the native tongue of Betelgeuse - IRC, Ford Prefect couldn't detect sarcasm unles he was really concentrating. Heh.

Mark · Mar 27, 2003

Re: [OT} Inflected languages

Skade said:
We see this all the time here on the boards, which is why emoticons are so prevalent.

RangerWickett · Mar 27, 2003

Dude, I wish I'd asked that question!

RangerWickett · Mar 27, 2003

'Inflected language' doesn't just mean that the language uses different inflections of words. It means that two sounds pronounced with the same sound will have different definitions depending on whether it starts high and goes low, starts low and goes high, or starts low, has a high point in the middle, and ends low again.

Y'know, like MMaa, mmAA, and mMAa.

Rich Forest · Mar 27, 2003

The short answer-- intonation is used to convey meaning differences in English.

And English intonation (like that of other languages) is fairly complicated--complicated enough that teachers of English as a foreign language devote large chunks of time teaching it. I know I do. One of the simplest examples of intonation in English is the difference between typical "Yes/No question" intonation and "Wh-question" intonation. Yes/No questions generally have rising intonation at the end of the utterance. Wh-questions generally have falling intonation. And as you've correctly pointed out, intonation is often used in English to show politeness. In fact, Ohio State University offers an entire seminar course in the study of English intonation for PhD students-- "Ling 795T: English Intonation." Right here.

[BTW, technically, linguists usually use the term "inflection" to describe changes in word form-- things like tense, aspect, etc., at least, in American English. "Intonation" is a better term for what you're describing.]

It's a bit strong, however, to say that English "requires" the use of intonation when making a snide comment. In fact, it's very likely that your friend is choosing not to use appropriate intonation, in order to get a specific response from people. Now he may not be entirely aware of this, which seems evident from your argument with him. Or he may be aware of it. But most of the time, we aren't aware of the choices we're making in how we use language, but we're still making the choices. I think it might serve your friend a specific purpose to not use as much intonation as some other people do. I won't surmise as to what that purpose might be, since I don't know your friend.

Also, as RangerWickett mentions, there are a few different ways intonation is used by languages. Some languages use intonation to mark chances in individual word meanings, which is something that English doesn't do. These languages are called "tone languages," and are what RangerWickett is referring to by the term "Inflected Language." Chinese is the big example. Linguists tend to use the term "tone" to talk about intonation being used to signify different word meanings and "intonation" to talk about utterance-level meaning changes. However, English does use intonation to make meaning changes at the utterance (That is, "clause," "sentence," what have you) level.

I'd also be willing to bet that your friend does use intonation appropriately whenever it is useful to him. It could just be that his intonation contours are flatter than most people. But nobody actually speaks in a true monotone all the time.

Rich

Angcuru · Mar 27, 2003

Bees like honey. - Fighter

Skade · Mar 27, 2003

You're both right, and I should have used "Languages without Intonation" as the thread title, but since I only have a basic understanding of the differences between the two concepts I felt the more common useage would be easier for purposes of my question. Still, an explantion of the differences is nice. Thanks.

Are there any languages where this is not necessary, where words spoken in near monotone can portray every thought, and emotion? Would it be possible?

Alzrius · Mar 27, 2003

I'm probably going to bring down a storm of people saying how wrong I am, but Japanese is somewhat like that.

I say somewhat because intonation is used in the language, and quite a bit, but its not needed for understanding. A good example is turning a sentence into a question. I hear all the time people using a rising lilt at the end of a sentence to convey uncertainty, that is, that they're asking a question. But they don't have to. They could just use the verbal modifier that adds a question element at the end of a sentence.

If someone says "genki da?" you just hear the "?" at the end from the intonation in their voice, asking if you're doing well. But if they say "genki da ka" you would know it was a question because the "ka" means, in English, "?". It's a word indicating that the rest of the sentence is a question. There are all sorts or particles and conjugations for things like that.

Japanese isn't a language that doesn't use intonations, since people are people, but I think that it could use no intonations and, without changing the language at all, still be as useful a language as it is now.

Skade · Mar 27, 2003

Alzrius, that is exactly what I was wondering. Thanks. Extending the example of emoticons and the boards, I point to the bracketed designators like [kidding] and [/kidding], or possibly, [question] and [/question] in an extreme sense. I knew Japanese had words for different concepts, like variations of love, or honor perhaps, I did not know there was a "question mark" word, which I find interesting.