Dark Sun Conversion

Panthanas

Explorer
Some background:

I ran a Dark Sun game in the 90s, which was a lot of fun, and members of my group still talk about it today. I've always wanted to return to Athas, if you will, but haven't had much opportunity to do so. I thought 5E would be a great fit for Dark Sun, and when I saw Princes of the Apocalypse made mention of Dark Sun, I thought this would be a good time to begin a new DS campaign.

Adapting the adventure itself seems pretty straight forward, but the issue of game mechanics reared its head, so I looked around for 5E Dark Sun conversions to allow my group to play on Athas. While there are some very good conversions my group thought it would be a good opportunity to try out converting some material ourselves.

We did draw from numerous sources, which I’ve done a best effort to give credit where it is due. This task was made immensely easier because of the previously created work.

With that said, I put a good deal of effort into modifying:
- a version of the Athasian Bard
- a version of a Psion
- the Wizard (including reworking defiling rules)
- (we put together) a version of a Psychic Warrior to replace the Eldritch Knight
- a version of Athasian Clerics
- Wild Talents
- tweaking the playable races

I would be interested in any feedback.

Thank you!

(Also, parts of this conversion utilize modified aspects and modifications of variant aspects of official rules. If this isn't appropriate, please remove or let me know and I will delete the post.)
 

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Wik

First Post
(Edit: Sorry [MENTION=6778305]Redthistle[/MENTION], I didn't mean to "laugh" at your post. Hit the wrong button!)

A few thoughts as I read through this (excellent!) PDF.

1. Dwarven Focus seems a little off. a +1 bonus is nice and all, but that whole "1 level of exhaustion each week the dwarf doesn't follow his focus" thing is HARSH. WHat this would mean in play is that the game is always about the dwarf... and if it's not about the dwarf, the dwarf suffers. Why not just a flat penalty, say, -2? That's much less game-changing. Personally, though, I'd lay back on the dwarven focus stuff. It always seemed a bit weird to me.

2. I like your half-giant, but their weapon use ability could benefit from a rewrite for clarity.

3. Halflings get waaay too many skills. Basically, a halfling bard could now begin play skilled in EIGHT skills! And I'm not sure why they get this ability. How does this link up to athasian canon? Were it me, I'd change the perception skill to insight (seems more athasian halfling to me), and get rid of the skill versatility ability and instead give them a speed of 30 feet and advantage on saves versus poison.

4. Why do MULS get perception as a bonus skill? That brings the number of races that have this up to three. I'd either give a mul athletics as a bonus skill, or give them another ability. Their inexhaustible ability is pretty neat, and thematic. I like.

5. Thri-kreen are pretty amazing. I'd drop their free stealth skill, and completely lose the "sleepless" ability, instead saying something like "thri-kreen are awake during a long rest". Otherwise, you're giving them the ability to do two adventuring days while everyone else does one! That's WAY too powerful.

6. I do like seeing the Athas.org bard resurface once more. Not sure about the mechanics, but damn it's cool to see again.

7. Psions. I'm notoriously anti psionic. I think Dark Sun can be run without psionics (and will do so, for my OWN conversion to 5e). PErsonally, Ithink you're biting off a huge chunk by trying to do psionics rules, but good luck to you.

8. The defiling rules look pretty similar to what I'd do, but I'm not sure about nixing the current specializations in favour of a boolean preserver/defiler choice. Just not a huge fan of the effects on the game by doing so.... it makes the decision whether or not to defile already made for you, 95% of the time. If it's always an option for your diviner/abjurer/whatever, it's a lot more flavourful and fun.

9. Caravan Guard's mechanics don't make sense. Why not make the tool proficiencies "Land Vehicles", and either grant an extra language, OR something like "Artisan's tools (Cook)?" or Gaming TOols (your choice)?

10. Scribe is also broken - no background should grant common as one of the bonus languages. Change it to "one additional language of your choice".

11. Escaped Slave needs one more tool proficiency or language. Personally, I'd go with gaming tools, or some sort of profession tool (your choice). I'd also drop the word "untrained" from the background title.

12. Weapons seem good so far. I like em.

13. Might I suggest you add a rule somewhere that curbs the use of create water spells? A good thing to keep in mind.

All in all, it's a great start. I'm excited to see how this works in play!
 

Panthanas

Explorer
Thank you for the feedback, it is very much appreciated!

1. Dwarven Focus seems a little off. a +1 bonus is nice and all, but that whole "1 level of exhaustion each week the dwarf doesn't follow his focus" thing is HARSH. WHat this would mean in play is that the game is always about the dwarf... and if it's not about the dwarf, the dwarf suffers. Why not just a flat penalty, say, -2? That's much less game-changing. Personally, though, I'd lay back on the dwarven focus stuff. It always seemed a bit weird to me.

Some of the material I left as is the way I found it, and a decent portion of the races material I left alone. I should have reworked some of that material, but I focused (ha!) on classes. Looking back at the 2E dwarven focus (which I actually didn't do until now), this could be completely re-written. The only draw back to the focus in 2E is if the dwarf dies before completing a focus the dwarf turns into a dwarven banshee "haunting their unfinished works". I may re-write the entire focus now as 2E dwarves only received a bonus on saves and proficiency rolls related to his or her focus. Good call.

2. I like your half-giant, but their weapon use ability could benefit from a rewrite for clarity.

Will do.

3. Halflings get waaay too many skills. Basically, a halfling bard could now begin play skilled in EIGHT skills! And I'm not sure why they get this ability. How does this link up to athasian canon? Were it me, I'd change the perception skill to insight (seems more athasian halfling to me), and get rid of the skill versatility ability and instead give them a speed of 30 feet and advantage on saves versus poison.

I'm not sure why either, and didn't even consider that occurring.
I like those options.

4. Why do MULS get perception as a bonus skill? That brings the number of races that have this up to three. I'd either give a mul athletics as a bonus skill, or give them another ability. Their inexhaustible ability is pretty neat, and thematic. I like.

Again, I'm not sure why either. Athletics makes more sense than perception. Once again, good call.

5. Thri-kreen are pretty amazing. I'd drop their free stealth skill, and completely lose the "sleepless" ability, instead saying something like "thri-kreen are awake during a long rest". Otherwise, you're giving them the ability to do two adventuring days while everyone else does one! That's WAY too powerful.

Awesome. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

6. I do like seeing the Athas.org bard resurface once more. Not sure about the mechanics, but damn it's cool to see again.

I re-worked a lot of the bard material. Some of what is presented here was in a conversion I found (the Dark Sun 5th Edition Player's Handbook V2.0, which I linked to in the pdf) like the Trade Secrets feature, which I liked. I added the Poisoner feature with the table and poisons (some from the DMG, others I made up), and the Poison Mastery feature. The bard class is where I started since I have a player who is looking to play an Athasian Bard. I'm hoping it works well....

7. Psions. I'm notoriously anti psionic. I think Dark Sun can be run without psionics (and will do so, for my OWN conversion to 5e). PErsonally, Ithink you're biting off a huge chunk by trying to do psionics rules, but good luck to you.

Psionics was a huge selling point for 2E DS. There is a an entire 2E DS mega adventure (Dragon''s Crown) that deals heavily with psionics, so I felt we should have it here. And, yes, it is a big undertaking. I wanted to make it as integrated as possible with existing 5E material, so I decided on the the variant spell point system from the DMG as a base. With that I wanted the disciplines, like the wizard schools, so tried to give each discipline its own flavor. One thing with 3.5E psionics was the ability to augment, so I thought the sorcerer metamagic system was a good way to do that. I am disallowing sorcerer as a an Athasian class, so thought it wouldn't step on any toes there.

8. The defiling rules look pretty similar to what I'd do, but I'm not sure about nixing the current specializations in favour of a boolean preserver/defiler choice. Just not a huge fan of the effects on the game by doing so.... it makes the decision whether or not to defile already made for you, 95% of the time. If it's always an option for your diviner/abjurer/whatever, it's a lot more flavourful and fun.

Specialized wizards weren't allowed in 2E DS, so I figured they shouldn't be allowed here. I may have to reword the defiling rules to be clearer, but my intention was to allow all wizards to preserve or defile at will. If they defile they use the Wizard Feature: Arcane Defiling rule. A preserver can defile if they choose to and use the Wizard Feature: Arcane Defiling and receive those benefits, as a defiler can choose not to defile, and cast the spell normally. What the paths were intended to do was just make you better at one or the other.


9. Caravan Guard's mechanics don't make sense. Why not make the tool proficiencies "Land Vehicles", and either grant an extra language, OR something like "Artisan's tools (Cook)?" or Gaming TOols (your choice)?

10. Scribe is also broken - no background should grant common as one of the bonus languages. Change it to "one additional language of your choice".

11. Escaped Slave needs one more tool proficiency or language. Personally, I'd go with gaming tools, or some sort of profession tool (your choice). I'd also drop the word "untrained" from the background title.

Once more: good call. I'll look at those. They, also, were from the conversion I found earlier and threw them in without really modifying them.

12. Weapons seem good so far. I like em.

I totally lifted them from Cyber-Dave on the WotC DS boards, which I did credit him for in the pdf.

13. Might I suggest you add a rule somewhere that curbs the use of create water spells? A good thing to keep in mind.

Ah, yeah. There is mention of that as note under the Water Domain of the Cleric section, but you're correct, it should be stated clearly elsewhere.

All in all, it's a great start. I'm excited to see how this works in play!

Again, I really appreciate the input. I'm planning on running by the end of next month (July) and would like it to be as smooth as possible, so the feedback is invaluable.

Thank you!
 

Wik

First Post
No problem. It's a pretty damn good conversion, and a lot of my "complaints" with it are actually complaints I have against Dark SUn in general - primarily, the reliance on psionics. I do think yours is the best starting point I've yet seen, and I'll probably cannibalize a few of your ideas when I get around to doing my own in a few years.

(I hope you don't mind, but I've saved the PDF).

For what it's worth, there WERE specialists in Dark Sun... in the original boxed set, wizards could be specialists. It wasn't until around the revised set that the "no specialists" rule came into play. Personally, I like that rule a lot better than the split between preserver and defiler... but then, that's how things work at my table, and every table is different. There's nothing wrong mechanically with what you've got. It's just a matter of differing tastes.

A few questions. It seems you're using the revised setting as your starting point... so why aren't Pterrans included as a PC race? I'm more curious than anything. I'd just reskin dragonborn, personally.

Second, what's your opinion about doing subraces? The elves of athas product has a lot of ideas on elven subraces, and the thri-kreen supplement gives options for new kreen subspecies. You could do subraces for dwarves too (city dwarves and wasteland dwarves?), Pterrans (based on which vale they come from), Aarakocra (wild or from Kurn), and halflings (Jungle, exile, and windriders?). Probably more work, I guess.

Oh, and a few ideas for more backgrounds: Dune Traders, Veiled Alliance Member, Herder/Nomad, and Raider.
 

Panthanas

Explorer
I thank you for the compliments. I put more time into this than I should have. It was almost like a job....

I posted the pdf so people could keep it. Again, much of what is in there is from other sources, but I wanted to re-work some areas. Feel free to share, re-write, change, fix any of it. I did try to give credit for all the material I used.

Ah, you're correct...they removed specialist mages in the Revised Set. I used the Revised Boxed Set when I ran my game in the 90s, so that must be why I recall no specialist. Hmmm...I do like the thought that magic is so restricted that there are no specialists, and I think I'll keep it that way for when I run Princes of the Apocalypse, but I can see why others would want specialists.

For that you could include the wizard schools, keep the Wizard Feature: Arcane Defiling, throw out the Defiler and Preserver Paths I have in this pdf, and maybe throw in some Feats for enhanced defiling or preserving.

As for Pterrans as a race, I was working with what I already found for a 5E conversion. Also, I was a bit under the gun to put something together. My group has been playing in another 5E campaign that another member of the group is running (we often switch between campaigns I run and the other group member runs, generally based on level of DM burnout and time constraints).

Anyway, I picked up Princes of the Apocalypse intending to run it for my 2 sons and saw it had a conversion for DS, and mentioned it to the group. A few of my current group were participants in the DS game I ran in the 90s, and they suggested I run Princes nn Dark Sun. I said I would have to convert some stuff, and they were all gung ho to play, so I was trying to convert quickly. For scheduling reasons, now we won't be playing until mid July though. Whew! To wrap up this exceedingly long reason why I don't currently have Pterrans, no one was interested in playing one, so I just didn't bother to convert them. Now that I have a bit more time, I may go ahead and do so.

I really like your ideas for some sub-races, and backgrounds. There are good sources to make that happen. I guess my limiting factor is the amount of time I have to put something like that together.
 

Wik

First Post
It always comes down to time, eh? For what it's worth, I was so stoked when I saw the conversion notes to Athas - it made my heart flutter with glee! Dark Sun has been my favourite setting ever - revised, original, whatever. I even don't hate the 4e version, though I know I had a lot of fights with the designers when it was coming out (ugh, Feywild, Tieflings, and GOBLINS. On Athas. Pass).

I get the "no specialist" logic in Dark Sun, when seen through the scope of 2e rules. The idea was, if you were specialized, the game was less "scroungy", because you were picking and choosing what spells you found. "Meh. this is an invocation spell, and I don't use those. I'll just skip on it." In 5th, your "specialization" is more just a preference, which I think helps differentiate players.

So, were it me, I'd have the normal rules in place, and then just toss in a "Defiling" option. (I'd say if you defile, you get either advantage on the attack roll or the enemy gets disadvantage on his save, or you get to cast it a level higher, or something really enticing). This always dangles the carrot (an evil, evil carrot) in front of the PCs' faces, which I like in a game.

And then there can be a "defiler" feat and a "preserver" feat, because feats.

Anyways, good luck on PotA! I'm playing in it next week, and looking forward to it (though we're in Faerun).
 

Also at the 90´s a friend DMed for us a campaign in Dark Sun and I still hold some dear memories about it. Dark Sun isn't my cup of tea but I do praise you and your group for the effort to put together 56 pages of conversion material, it is truly AWESOME! WELL DONE!

With this amount of love for the game and the setting Im sure your adaptation of PotA will be legendary.
 

fuindordm

Adventurer
This is really excellent work. I never played Dark Sun, but this makes me want to give it a try!

And the bard conversion is really creative. I *think* the poison use is enough to make up for not having spells... at least, it's enough to make me willing to play the class, and it's great to have another mundane option in the mix.

Thank you!
Ben
 

Panthanas

Explorer
Thank you psiconauta_retro and fuindordm for your kind words. I would like to say that we didn't do all of the work here; some of it was done previously, which I did my best to credit the sources.

I did a large amount of work on the bard, but some of the material, such as the Trade Secrets came from the Dark Sun Guide v2.0, which is linked in the PDF.

I have also revised portions of the PDF (mostly the race material) from the input received from Wik, which I should update since I believe the changes are for the better. (Thanks again Wik!)
 

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