There's actually a very good reason for it: by coating the flour in butter you prevent it from going long and becoming chewy. Chewy is good for things like bread, but a lot of recipes require a much shorter (and more crumbly) pastry.
Is authenticity important for you when eating ethnic/regional food?
There's actually a very good reason for it: by coating the flour in butter you prevent it from going long and becoming chewy. Chewy is good for things like bread, but a lot of recipes require a much shorter (and more crumbly) pastry.
I am well aware. My wife and I bake quite a bit. I am noting that that *particular* way of incorporating the fat into the flour is not so much more effective as to be worth the extra trouble and mess.
tomBitonti
Adventurer
For Chinese, there is a scale, ranging from Americanized Semi-Chinese Analogue (not really authentic; just a hint of true Chinese cooking) to the truly Chinese, say, street grilled Squid on a stick with Sechuan pepper, more of a southern Chinese thing, or, a bowl of warm soy milk, or, whole steamed fish (the kind that has a lot of small bones), or, hot pot with congealed duck blood (looks like pink tofu), or pickled duck tongue (this I don't care for, but it is a treasured delicacy). I put Americanized Semi-Chinese Analogue in a whole different category than real Chinese food.
But, was the question about who was making the food, as in, is it authentic if not made by a person of the corresponding ethnic group? From that perspective, who is making the food usually matters, but only in an indirect sense, in that a person from outside the ethnic group is very unlikely to make food with the correct properties.
Another problem is that outside of the region most associated with an ethnic group, getting traditional ingredients may be very hard.
Thx!
TomB
But, was the question about who was making the food, as in, is it authentic if not made by a person of the corresponding ethnic group? From that perspective, who is making the food usually matters, but only in an indirect sense, in that a person from outside the ethnic group is very unlikely to make food with the correct properties.
Another problem is that outside of the region most associated with an ethnic group, getting traditional ingredients may be very hard.
Thx!
TomB
This brings up a major point. There is no such thing as "authentic Chinese" or "authentic Indian" food, insofar as those cultures are in no way, shape, or form monolithic - there are regions and sub-cultures under the national banner. Heck, even with Italian food - what you authentically in Rome is not the same as what you see in Venice! And time is also an issue - I can prepare for you an authentic Italian dish... from the 1400s, translated directly from the cookbook of the Pope's personal chef, and you'd not recognize it as "Italian food".
Humans have this thing they can do, called "learning". Sometimes, we are pretty good at it. A guy from Mexico City can learn how to prepare the best, most proper Sichuan food there is, if someone will teach him.
Sorry for the snarky tone on that, but a lot of people in the culinary arts go to great lengths to learn what 'real' food is. While the short-order cook at the pizza place probably hasn't done much, so I think we have to be careful considering how often something is, or isn't, authentic.
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tomBitonti
Adventurer
Hi,
Agreed re: There being many different types of food, and the name "Chinese" (or "Indian", or many others) rather implies a singular quality which isn't there.
However, I would propose: Just about any food from mainland China, from whatever region, is vastly different than food prepared here in the United States and presented as "Chinese Food", except in rare cases. And even then, what can be made here in the United States is a smallish subset of what can be made in China, simply because the ingredients just aren't available here. (I can speak to Chinese food, but only to Chinese food. I don't think that I've eaten authentic Indian, Thai, or Japanese, although I have eaten Americanized versions of these. I have eaten a middling amount of authentic Chinese food.)
Individuals can learn to cook authentic food. I would expect a professional chef, or well practiced cook, can learn. I suspect that a person who spends a while in a region and who cooks will pick up a lot of the cooking style. That was the point of my followup question. I was trying to tease out the nuances of the original question. Was it "When you head out to have ethnic food, does it matter to you how close the food matches the region which is represented?" Or more, "When you head out for ethnic food, if the food matches the ethnic region, but the preparer does not, do you consider the food still to be authentic?"
Edit: Mixing "ethnic" with "regional", which isn't quite right. I think both work to create categories of food, and that the discussion could use either. But conflating the terms is improper.
Thx!
TomB
Agreed re: There being many different types of food, and the name "Chinese" (or "Indian", or many others) rather implies a singular quality which isn't there.
However, I would propose: Just about any food from mainland China, from whatever region, is vastly different than food prepared here in the United States and presented as "Chinese Food", except in rare cases. And even then, what can be made here in the United States is a smallish subset of what can be made in China, simply because the ingredients just aren't available here. (I can speak to Chinese food, but only to Chinese food. I don't think that I've eaten authentic Indian, Thai, or Japanese, although I have eaten Americanized versions of these. I have eaten a middling amount of authentic Chinese food.)
Individuals can learn to cook authentic food. I would expect a professional chef, or well practiced cook, can learn. I suspect that a person who spends a while in a region and who cooks will pick up a lot of the cooking style. That was the point of my followup question. I was trying to tease out the nuances of the original question. Was it "When you head out to have ethnic food, does it matter to you how close the food matches the region which is represented?" Or more, "When you head out for ethnic food, if the food matches the ethnic region, but the preparer does not, do you consider the food still to be authentic?"
Edit: Mixing "ethnic" with "regional", which isn't quite right. I think both work to create categories of food, and that the discussion could use either. But conflating the terms is improper.
Thx!
TomB
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Amusingly, I've known 2 Chinese cooks here in the USA who were well-respected in their homeland, but left for the greater freedom & opportunities in the USA.
I say "amusingly" because their restaurants largely served the same stuff you'd find in any Americanized Chinese restaurant. One- the guy who had been chef for some higher-ups in The Party- DID have an authentic Chinese menu. I tried their version of soft-shelled crab once. Wasn't to MY liking- too much like crab jerkey- but the expats were downing it like it was free.
I say "amusingly" because their restaurants largely served the same stuff you'd find in any Americanized Chinese restaurant. One- the guy who had been chef for some higher-ups in The Party- DID have an authentic Chinese menu. I tried their version of soft-shelled crab once. Wasn't to MY liking- too much like crab jerkey- but the expats were downing it like it was free.
On the subject of Chinese food: the chef at my local Chinese is from China, and has won international contests in China for his cooking. The thing is, though, that he makes modern Chinese food*, which is competely unlike either "authentic" Chinese cooking or Westernised Chinese. And it's delicious.
* Of course most of the restaurant's turnover comes from the takeaways, which are all standard Westernised dishes.
* Of course most of the restaurant's turnover comes from the takeaways, which are all standard Westernised dishes.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Our local French bakery is owned by a Cambodian, which we all thought was a bit strange until he pointed out that Cambodia use to be part of French Indochina.
But I do know that my mothers curries while delicious are different to those of our India born neighbours.
But really it depends what I want and if I want to experience flavour or authenticity
But I do know that my mothers curries while delicious are different to those of our India born neighbours.
But really it depends what I want and if I want to experience flavour or authenticity
Cristian Andreu
Explorer
Who made the food has no particular impact on my enjoyment; if the food is good, then I like it!
That said, one of my favourite restaurants is a Chinese place named after a Persian location, run by a Chinese lady, managed by an Ecuadorian, where the cooks are from Korea and Argentina, the waiters are Colombian, and the guy at the parking spots is from Guatemala. And it's right next to a Palestinian sports club. Located in Chile.
Doesn't get any more fusion than that.
That said, one of my favourite restaurants is a Chinese place named after a Persian location, run by a Chinese lady, managed by an Ecuadorian, where the cooks are from Korea and Argentina, the waiters are Colombian, and the guy at the parking spots is from Guatemala. And it's right next to a Palestinian sports club. Located in Chile.
Doesn't get any more fusion than that.
It's all good. I just want validation on what a scone is supposed to be like. And I'm not likely to get that unless Morrus comes over and points at all my Scones and says "not it"
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