Homebrew 'Nother Psionics PC homebrew for 5e.
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  1. #1
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    'Nother Psionics PC homebrew for 5e.

    So we'll put this here.

    My 3rd or 4th go at this, at least. I've tried feats, a coupla Sorcerer subclasses, and other stuff.

    Thought we'd go full-on Class +subclasses iteration this time.

    See what folks think.
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  2. #2
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    As we'e discovered in the other thread in the 5e discussion forum, one can't attach pdf's as an image. So here's the actual pages for those disinclined to download the pdf.

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    i'm going to jump in here with some thoughts from a quick first reading, i like the general layout of it as far as not being a subclass but a class on its own, and think it stays true to past psionics as far as flavour.

    after writing this i notice it comes across as if I don't like it, but i really do, I think it may just be a function of me being really sleepy, there are just some things that I think need balancing, and some that aren't clear.

    However, there are some balance issues and some clarification issues.

    balance
    if powers are treated like warlock powers (cast at maximum rank) then I think they are vastly overpowered - warlock gets 3 castings upto lvl 5 refresh on short rest. psionic gets +/- 25 castings with upto 10 that refresh on short rest. yes they are more limited in spell selection and must focus on a suite to increase the power level but being able to cast 20 cone of colds is still rough.
    mind blast - 20ft cone damage +knockout on an int save -generally weakest of the saves (if it acts like sleep where they wakeup on damage, i'd still say overpowered but would be more in line - however isn't specified)
    mental whip - similar to mind blast - perma stun against 1 target for free, just let the rest of your group crit them to death.
    multi-layered mind - can you manifest the same power several times? even just talents drop 4 mind whips, and you are attacking like a warrior but also knocking people out. - powers means you can cast 4 spells in 1 round boom ice stormx4 clear the battle field. (this will likely fall into the clarification section when you say you can cast 1/turn and maintain several or something to that effect)
    if multi-layered mind does not allow you to repeat the same talent then the only really viable talent as cantrip is mindwhip after mid level as you will be capped at 2d8, or 2d6 with attack roll vs cantrips that will be doing 3-4d10 or have a rider
    collective cognition = mind blast or mind whip at upto 17creatues (potentiallly 4 times)
    -kineticist - reflexive defense 10 free shield spells per day when you already have base 14 ac +dex
    psychokinetic surge 10d6 no save bludegon dmg ontop of whatever action you were doing to cause it
    -kinetic field + mental muscle = an almost must dip for anyone who wants to be a tank. bonus 2 ac that adds to dex save, and advantage on dex saves.
    -Seer- 7 portent dice is crazy powerful
    psychic talents - I know you mention that most psychic talents are for psychic battles, however all but the 4 attacks are unusable against anything non-psychic (okay protects against dissonent whispers and such, but highly limited) - seems like there should be a little more general utility in here rather than pure psychic battle.


    clarifications:
    There are generally no distinctions between actions, bonus actions, or reactions for any talent or power.
    Main Class
    Mental Ranks - once I am level 20 or have 5 ranks in a suite, does my rank 1 ray of frost/cure wounds rank up to be a "5th level version" similar to a warlock, or are they locked at starting rank.
    multi-layered mind do instantaneous duration powers need to be maintained? ie mental whip, do they count towards the powers being maintained during a round? assuming they do does that mean I cast mental whip resolve. say i want to cast it again, perform an int check. resolve. (upto 4 times at lvl 15?) or can I activate 1 power. next round, maintain it, activate a new power, next round maintain it, activate a new power, maintain, activate new maintain.
    if I do the above can I decide to let drop any power on my turn and activate a new power.
    exhaustion overburn - when the constitution is lost - ie it like temporary con damage - ie will affect con saves and can only be restored via a restoration(greater?) spell? for the hitpoints lost. assume I am lvl 10 with 60 hps, my con drops from 16 to 15. do I lost 10hps, If I am at 10/60hps do I lose them and go unconcious? does the power take effect beforehand?
    mental focus - are these int saves an alternative to the normal con save? ie I can try int (as it will likely be a better save for me up to x times, after that I have to do a normal con save?)

    you list telepath, telekinetic and metamind but not clairvoyant (just an editing thing)

    Kineticist
    Kinetic force - your example says add 2d6 per 3 levels. should it be 1d6 with a base add 2d6 for the ability (since it is a lvl 6 ability)? your example gives lvl 9 3d6 lv12 4d6

    metamind
    psi-crystal expanded attunement - okayI can attune to 5 crystals instead of 1..why? do I get +10 to those rolls? is it just incase I lose my grain of quartz that I implanted under my skin? are the psicrystals destroyed(used up) when I used psychic recovery?


    Psychic talents:

    many state duration : until your next turn. is this start of your next turn.
    mind shield - is this like a temporary hp pool against psychic or like a DR/- for psychic (assuming a pool)
    psi-armor : I don't understand
    mental screen : "mental defesnes" what does this mean, other psychic talents aka mind shield?, any maintained power? aka haste? if you have thought tower active does it duplicate to each of your party and thus grant thought tower^n

    Powers:
    are the durations the same as base spell? how is concentration handled? ie haste can I have haste and slow on at same time as a lvl 15 psionic?

    Telekinetic -
    telekinetic bolt = what base spell?

    Pyro/cryo
    pyro /cryo shape -- assuming this is control flames?

    teleportation powers
    line of sight teleport = ? what is base? teleport in sight, can i bring someone along?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    i'm going to jump in here with some thoughts from a quick first reading, i like the general layout of it as far as not being a subclass but a class on its own, and think it stays true to past psionics as far as flavour.

    after writing this i notice it comes across as if I don't like it, but i really do, I think it may just be a function of me being really sleepy, there are just some things that I think need balancing, and some that aren't clear.
    Not to worry and I really appreciate the thorough post and all of the questions.

    I do not have time to really get into them now (probablyy at all today) but I do appreciate them and WILL get back to you on all of this!

    There certainly may be some "balance" issues, as I try to be "balanced" in a general way -within certain parameters- but ultimately see "game balance" as a meaningless construct of the game. As you've noted, however, some of these things could easily be OVER-powered, and that, obviously, I do not want.

    There are also great insights here into various holes and opportunities for powergaming/abuse that, as it is completely foreign to my playstyle, are not generally recognized by me...and same with "at high levels it seems like X could happen/be done" and that, similarly, is not something I usually look at...high (10+) level play being, imho, a rarity among most groups...unless you are purposely starting at higher levels. Again, outside my experience. My concern for the higher level powers/features were to see if/how they stood up against other class abilities of those levels/capstones...That's about as much into "balanced" as I care to delve.

    And, as you noted, there are more than couple of just plain typos and mis-writings that don't necessarily make sense (or convey something I did not intend, like that 2d6/1d6 business with the kinetic force...which I think you interpreted correctly, but definitely needs rewriting/clarification)

    So, lots of good questions and pointing out things that I really hadn't noticed/weren't considering. So great post and I will come back to it/you/offer answers and solutions as soon as I have sufficient opportunity/time.

    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Ok. Let's see what we can get through here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    balance
    if powers are treated like warlock powers (cast at maximum rank) then I think they are vastly overpowered - warlock gets 3 castings upto lvl 5 refresh on short rest. psionic gets +/- 25 castings with upto 10 that refresh on short rest. yes they are more limited in spell selection and must focus on a suite to increase the power level but being able to cast 20 cone of colds is still rough.
    I'm not clear on where you're getting "treated like warlock powers"...is that because some [most?] subclass of the short rest? I had considered making some things long rest only....but the use of suite/ranked powers are on a long rest. Level + Int. mod. times per long rest. So...I'm not really following the question/objection here. Where are you getting "25 castings/up to 10 on a short rest"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    mind blast - 20ft cone damage +knockout on an int save -generally weakest of the saves (if it acts like sleep where they wakeup on damage, i'd still say overpowered but would be more in line - however isn't specified)
    I should specify that. I suppose it would/should end with damage, like a sleep spell. That's just sporting. If something is psychically striking your mind, like a mind blast whose purpose is to overwhelm you...making an Int. save. seems the most fitting. Yes, it will be weakest for many charcters...that's not really the psychic's problem/fault, now is it?

    I may limit the AoE, but I was working off memory of what a Mind Flayer could do...and the fact it uses a Mental Rank Power use for the day, vs. being at will like the other Talents, I think warrants it being quite powerful.

    Having mentioned that now, it should cover/point out that further issues brought up later that include "using mind blast in such and such a way" aren't really possible, since it requires one of your "long rest power use slots", but that definitely can/should be rewritten for clarity. It does seem overpowered if you're going to double up your mind blasts (via. Mind-Layered Mind), but then, there's 2 of your long rest power uses.

    How often can you really get away with doing that [before depleting all fo your long rest power uses]? How often would it be necessary? When you get up to 3 and 4 at once...yeah, I see a bit of the immersion cracking...but then, at/by 15th, I could see a party going up against hordes of creatures that, being able to sweep/knock out (80 feet?) of creatures...and that's if they all fail their saves...but could certainly be doing psychic damage to that many folks. Is a 20' wide cone really so much area to cover? At 15th level, dropping a 20' radius, basically, around the psychic...doesn't seem OP'd to me.

    Mind Blast, itself, I guess needs some rewriting/reworking. What it effects. How it works. Maybe it needs being removed from the Talents' list all together...thrown in with Telepathic power effects (like in the 3 ranks area, make it the Telepath's "fireball" kinda thing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    mental whip - similar to mind blast - perma stun against 1 target for free, just let the rest of your group crit them to death.
    Well, it's not a "perma stun". It's 1 round...and there is a save, so it may be just psychic damage and that's it. Yes, if the target makes it, you can try to stun them again the next round (if you don't have something else to be doing). You can use mind whip on 2 minds at once (using Multi-Layered Mind), from first level, 3 at 9th, 4 at 15th. That does not seem overly-powered to me...at least, no moreso than any other spammed at-will damage causing cantrip.

    Would you suggest just removing the stunning condition? I wanted it to do something more than just psychic damage to differentiate it (and mind blast as well) from the straight "Psi-[bolt/blade/stab" damage attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    multi-layered mind - can you manifest the same power several times?
    If you are going to use 4 power slots at once....mmm...I going to say 4 Talents, in the same round, sure. 4 powers, I think should be 1, then maintaining that power and initiaiting it your following turn, etc...but, then/there, also, you will eventually be using up 4 power slots...at 15th level, I guess you can spare that a couple of times a day.

    But again, thanks for thinking this way/pointing this out...def. needs some rewriting/clarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    even just talents drop 4 mind whips, and you are attacking like a warrior but also knocking people out. - powers means you can cast 4 spells in 1 round boom ice stormx4 clear the battle field. (this will likely fall into the clarification section when you say you can cast 1/turn and maintain several or something to that effect)
    Yes. What you said. hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    if multi-layered mind does not allow you to repeat the same talent then the only really viable talent as cantrip is mindwhip after mid level as you will be capped at 2d8, or 2d6 with attack roll vs cantrips that will be doing 3-4d10 or have a rider
    Again, you're losing me in the numbers. Where are you getting 3-4d10? Tripling or quadrupling your mind whip is going to get you 3-4 x 2d4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    collective cognition = mind blast or mind whip at upto 17creatues (potentiallly 4 times)
    Well, this was intended to be borrowing from the recent sorcerer Twin Spell "errata" in that if a power/talent targets more than 1 individual, it can not be used with Collective Cognition. So again, no, you can't mind blast this. Mind Whip? Yes. Charm Person? Yes. The telepath's "Message" ability which is a single mind, yes. A telekinetics, Levitate or Slow, sure. Psychokinetic Blast (or whatever I called it), no.

    So, area effects, no. Single targets, yes. Not "I, the player, am targeting one creature." But the power, itself targets 1 creature. At 17th level, assuming the assumed game cap of 20 levels, that doesn't seem an outrageous ability to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    -kineticist - reflexive defense 10 free shield spells per day when you already have base 14 ac +dex
    You're right. This needs reworking to either "per long rest" or spending/using one of your long rest power uses to bring about the field/shield, as a reaction. That seems in line with other class abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    psychokinetic surge 10d6 no save bludegon dmg ontop of whatever action you were doing to cause it
    To everyone in the AoE, yes. You don't have control over it. It's a big blast that can be as bad for the party as any enemies in the area. Use it smart, and you deserve the big bonus damage.

    It is intended, really, as a cautionary/careful what you do thing, not a "oo! Lookit all the damage I can make." The PC should not really WANT to be using their Con. to effect any powers...and this "losing control" could be devastating for a party/are they're in.

    But, I wasn't 100% on what/how I wrote it and kinda threw it up to have people look at it...So, I could, I suppose just rewrite it the same as a Chaos sorcerer's Wild/Chaos Surge, but I didn't want it to be quite THAT unpredictable. I wanted it to be possibly usable...like if the Teke really really had to they could "unleash" their control in lieu/hopes that the raw power might be helpful...or, as I said, as a "No don't make me do this I can't hold on anymore"...shades of the Phoenix Force (of X-man/Jean Grey fame -more form the comics than movies, but still) kind of thing, is what I was going for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    -kinetic field + mental muscle = an almost must dip for anyone who wants to be a tank. bonus 2 ac that adds to dex save, and advantage on dex saves.
    I am not/can not write for people who are going to play with/allow "dipping" in their games. If folks want to play that way, great. But to play that way and say "Hey, then this is broken!"...DUH! Dipping ought not be allowed and if your game permits it...you get whatever broken/OP'd/powergamed nonsense you get (and ultimately, want, don't they?).

    Default game, without the OPTIONAL [3e-style] multi-classing rules, doesn't worry about this. I'll write for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    -Seer- 7 portent dice is crazy powerful
    7? OH! Half your level, from 14. Again...well, 1) you're 14th level. Being able to declare what 7 rolls do doesn't seem that crazy powerful...and 2) It's per long rest. Granted, this is likely the same as "per day". But between attack rolls (yours and enemies), save rolls (yours and enemies) maybe a few skill/ability checks...those 7-10 are going to get used up pretty quickly in any group/normal day of adventure...and you get what you get...it's not like you can decide what numbers there are...not every roll is going to be beneficial...or have an opportunity present itself to/in a way the player may chose to use it. So..even if you have 7-10 per day, you might only use -or have numbers you want to use- 3 or 5 times. Then there's new rolls the follwing day/long rest.

    I don't know. I don't get the impression, in play, that that would be as crazy powerful as you think it looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    psychic talents - I know you mention that most psychic talents are for psychic battles, however all but the 4 attacks are unusable against anything non-psychic (okay protects against dissonent whispers and such, but highly limited) - seems like there should be a little more general utility in here rather than pure psychic battle.
    I disagree. You can use your defensive talents to protect against all kinds of charm effects, enchantment and many illusion spells, fear effects, yes, protect yourself and others from psychic damage. Yes, they're situational. All power use is situational. But I would hardly say it is "unusable against non-psychics."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    clarifications:
    There are generally no distinctions between actions, bonus actions, or reactions for any talent or power.
    Using a power/talent takes an action...unless otherwise specified. Why? How much distinction should there be? I could rework the multi-layered mind thing that the second power/talent being used gets to be a "bonus action"...does make it, somehow, more enticing or make more sense, in 5e terminology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Main Class
    Mental Ranks - once I am level 20 or have 5 ranks in a suite, does my rank 1 ray of frost/cure wounds rank up to be a "5th level version" similar to a warlock, or are they locked at starting rank.
    Oo, good question. No! Powers are the ranks they are for your "access/unlocking" of them. They function as the "spell level" they are. That is all. Any alterations to that or '"expansions" of its powers for the psychic [that differ from the spell] would be included in the power description...but they were not written/placed/intended/will not "scale" like spells do.

    At 20th level, you'll have [or can potentially have] 5 ranks in one suite, and up to 5 ranks in a second (more likely, I think, this will be spread out for 1-2-3 ranks in an assortment of powers, for most players).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    multi-layered mind do instantaneous duration powers need to be maintained? ie mental whip, do they count towards the powers being maintained during a round?
    Instantaneous powers do not need to be "maintained." They are "over" in a single round. But yes, they still "count." You can use multiple ones at once...within that round, they happen -count as the powers you are using that round- and are over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    assuming they do does that mean I cast mental whip resolve. say i want to cast it again, perform an int check. resolve. (upto 4 times at lvl 15?) or can I activate 1 power. next round, maintain it, activate a new power, next round maintain it, activate a new power, maintain, activate new maintain.
    Either. Both. Depends on the power. With Mind Whip, you would just use 4 at once, in a single round. For a mind whip that you also wanted to use a power with, you'd have the Mind Whip and Power manifest at once. Resolve. Next turn, you'd be maintaining the Power from the last turn (assumning you wanted to) and then effect Mind Whip again, bring in a second power. Resolve. Next turn: You now are maintaining 2 powers from previous turns, you use Mind Whip again (3), and can initiate another talent or power (4).

    I should really change/specify that the roll needs to be made for EACH additional power...so even if you are 15th level and want 4 powers going at once, you need to make those 3 rolls (1 for each power beyond the first)...or it doesn't work. So, again, it is not an "all the time 100% reliable/certain" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    if I do the above can I decide to let drop any power on my turn and activate a new power.
    I don't see why not. Need to include language to that effect, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    exhaustion overburn - when the constitution is lost - ie it like temporary con damage - ie will affect con saves and can only be restored via a restoration(greater?) spell?
    Yes. That is my thinking/intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    for the hitpoints lost. assume I am lvl 10 with 60 hps, my con drops from 16 to 15. do I lost 10hps.
    IS that how normal Con. loss effects HP? Then I'm going to say yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    If I am at 10/60hps do I lose them and go unconcious?
    If it brings you to 0, I'm going to guess so, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    does the power take effect beforehand?
    You've spent the Con. to maintain/initiate the power. I would say yes. It goes off, that turn, and at the end of that turn, you have your 0 HP and pass out. That would be my ruling, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    mental focus - are these int saves an alternative to the normal con save? ie I can try int (as it will likely be a better save for me up to x times, after that I have to do a normal con save?)
    After you have used as many Int. saves as you are allowed, then yes, you could use a normal Con one against additonal attacks. If you are asking if you can make a Con. save, as an additional failsafe, after failing an Int. save against an atack, then no. That is not my intention. You have these Int. saves you can make in addition to /instead of Con. saves for up to half your level attacks per turn. If 3 is half you level, and you are attacked (and hit! Potentially disrupted) 4 times: the first 3 are Int. saves, the 4th is a normal Con. save. Failure anywhere in there still causes disruption of your concentration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    you list telepath, telekinetic and metamind but not clairvoyant (just an editing thing)
    Yes. I caught that after I made the pdf. It'll be fixed on the rewrite/next draft. But good catch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Kineticist
    Kinetic force - your example says add 2d6 per 3 levels. should it be 1d6 with a base add 2d6 for the ability (since it is a lvl 6 ability)? your example gives lvl 9 3d6 lv12 4d6
    You are correct. 2d6 +d6 per 3 levels. Def. need to fix that mess up. Looks like I was thinking too fast and combined two sentences in my typing. hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    metamind
    psi-crystal expanded attunement - okayI can attune to 5 crystals instead of 1..why?
    Short answer? Because I was at a total loss for cool things/powers for this guy to do at higher levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    do I get +10 to those rolls? is it just incase I lose my grain of quartz that I implanted under my skin? are the psicrystals destroyed(used up) when I used psychic recovery?
    You know...it was, really just to have a "in case you lose one/if you find yourself without one, you can grab another and an hour later be back up to snuff...but ,ya know, I REALLY like the idea of "using it up" for Recovery. So, in effect, giving you these extra crystals let's you use recovery, potentially, more than once per whatever.

    But the whole things needs another once over/redo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Psychic talents:

    many state duration : until your next turn. is this start of your next turn.
    Yes. I was trying to make sure "End of next turn" was its own thing. So if it doesn't say "End of your next turn" then it is the "start" of your next turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    mind shield - is this like a temporary hp pool against psychic or like a DR/- for psychic (assuming a pool)
    I suppose you can think of it either way...I tend to envision it as your shield has level + Int. mod. "psychic HPs" that it can take before the "Mind Shield" shatters/is overwhelmed...and the psychic damage/effects can begin to effect those [minds] "behind" the shield. So I guess that's a "temp HP pool" as far as you're concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    psi-armor : I don't understand
    AH. Yeah. This was tough to try to write to fit in that space. hahaha.

    What I'm thinking is: Take your "physical AC"...+ Int. mod. + Wis. mod. + Cha mod. = "Psychic AC". So psychic attacks against you -that require an attack roll- have to hit THAT AC to damage you.

    It might not work...I was trying to come up with some different/interesting defensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    mental screen : "mental defenses" what does this mean, other psychic talents aka mind shield?, any maintained power? aka haste? if you have thought tower active does it duplicate to each of your party and thus grant thought tower^n
    "Mental defenses" are, for most, going to be your Talent "defensive modes". If you have a Mind Shield or Iron Will or, yes, Thought Tower, in effect, you activate Mental Screen, that that defense (as per YOU, not each individual) applies/protects every friend in range.

    Something like "Haste" or "Wall of X"? No. Mask/Obscure Thoughts [reversed Detect Thoughts]? Yeah. A telepath's Mind Blank...yes, I could see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Powers:
    are the durations the same as base spell? how is concentration handled? ie haste can I have haste and slow on at same time as a lvl 15 psionic?
    I would LIKE, for simplicity's sake to have as many powers as can [make sense] to just follow their spell durations. There are some, like Hold Person, where it makes sense that concentration is required keep the person "held." So, I would probably just alter the power descriptions where necessary.

    Concentration, as far as this write up was concerned, was going to just operate the way it currently does for spell casters...again, simplicity.
    I had not really delved into that side of it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Telekinetic -
    telekinetic bolt = what base spell?
    Eh. I was figuring it would be a concussive force "throw your opponents away from you" kind of bolt...but I see no reason you couldn't just use "Lightning Bolt", but change the damage to bludgeoning/force damage. [Just got the coolest image of a telekinetic character using this power down a corridor full of skeletons and bone shards just shattering and flying every which way. Teke turns to the lovely fighter with a half-bow and a flourish to say, "After you." ]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    Pyro/cryo
    pyro /cryo shape -- assuming this is control flames?
    Pretty much yeah. I realized after running through their powers, they had nothing really "pyrokinetic", as in changing/shaping existing fires or ice..in the case of ice, this could also involve melting/refreezing water into useful shapes/items. Basically "Wood/Stone shape"...for fire or ice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    teleportation powers
    line of sight teleport = ? what is base? teleport in sight, can i bring someone along?
    Bottom line, again? Needed something between [better than] Misty Step and [not as good as] Dim Door. hahaha. Figured a "Nightcrawler" [X-men, again] style teleport, LoS only, would be good. I was going to probably throw teleporting with/holding onto someone else as a higher level use of the power...and/or, in true Nightcrawler fashion, making a second teleport "bonus action" to 'port away at the end of your turn.

    Phew! That was a LOT! But, again, thanks for all of the questions and wonderings into areas I really wouldn't go/wasn't thinking. VERY helpful!

    I'll give you a holler when the next draft goes up.
    Last edited by steeldragons; Thursday, 25th June, 2015 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Ok. Let's see what we can get through here...



    I'm not clear on where you're getting "treated like warlock powers"...is that because some [most?] subclass of the short rest? I had considered making some things long rest only....but the use of suite/ranked powers are on a long rest. Level + Int. mod. times per long rest. So...I'm not really following the question/objection here. Where are you getting "25 castings/up to 10 on a short rest"?
    You answer it in the clarification section, I meant that for a warlock a spell is always cast at the highest slot level, so if the warlock has 3 lvl 5 slots the armor of agathys is cast as a lvl 5 spell (so 25hps and deals 25dmg) not as a lvl 1 spell like when you first took it.

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Well, it's not a "perma stun". It's 1 round...and there is a save, so it may be just psychic damage and that's it. Yes, if the target makes it, you can try to stun them again the next round (if you don't have something else to be doing). You can use mind whip on 2 minds at once (using Multi-Layered Mind), from first level, 3 at 9th, 4 at 15th. That does not seem overly-powered to me...at least, no moreso than any other spammed at-will damage causing cantrip.

    Would you suggest just removing the stunning condition? I wanted it to do something more than just psychic damage to differentiate it (and mind blast as well) from the straight "Psi-[bolt/blade/stab" damage attacks.
    I was looking at perma-stun from the idea that with multi-level mind you could cast it at the BBEG upto 4x per turn forcing them to use their possibly legendary action, and then still have to pass 3 spell save dc's of upto 20 to not get stunned. -if a seer means they can probably garuntee a few rounds of fails with those portent dice. -from a greedy player point of view I love stuns, they end fights quickly, however since it is a talent/cantrip maybe something that reduces actions (move or attack not both) or reduces speed to zero, the issue with stuns is that as soon as something is stunned it is vulnerable to all sorts of other conditions and extra crit damage from the rest of the party.


    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    If you are going to use 4 power slots at once....mmm...I going to say 4 Talents, in the same round, sure. 4 powers, I think should be 1, then maintaining that power and initiaiting it your following turn, etc...but, then/there, also, you will eventually be using up 4 power slots...at 15th level, I guess you can spare that a couple of times a day.

    But again, thanks for thinking this way/pointing this out...def. needs some rewriting/clarity.
    I think part of the clarification needs to come in the form of specifying how actions are used (i brought this up somewhere and you made a reply but i'm getting confused by the quotes with no context in this reply. ) ex. some talents use a bonus action like psi-armor, but others use an action like mental whip. a power uses the equivilent action to the spell ie shield is a reaction but haste is an action. (not suggesting this structure but just for the sake of example) with this you can specify that you can use a power and a talent or two talents in the same turn.




    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Again, you're losing me in the numbers. Where are you getting 3-4d10? Tripling or quadrupling your mind whip is going to get you 3-4 x 2d4.
    sorry was making a comparison between mindwhip with multi-layered mind and a normal cantrip spell. a cantrip will increase with level so for example a warlocks eldritch blast will start at 1d10 and go upto 4d10 at higher levels, or a bards vicous mockery starts at 1d4 and goes up to 4d4 at lvl 17 so mind whip at 4x 2d4 is twice as much damage as the closest equivalent cantrip (which has a forced movement rider vs a stun)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Well, this was intended to be borrowing from the recent sorcerer Twin Spell "errata" in that if a power/talent targets more than 1 individual, it can not be used with Collective Cognition. So again, no, you can't mind blast this. Mind Whip? Yes. Charm Person? Yes. The telepath's "Message" ability which is a single mind, yes. A telekinetics, Levitate or Slow, sure. Psychokinetic Blast (or whatever I called it), no.

    So, area effects, no. Single targets, yes. Not "I, the player, am targeting one creature." But the power, itself targets 1 creature. At 17th level, assuming the assumed game cap of 20 levels, that doesn't seem an outrageous ability to me.
    IMO It would need to be toned down a lot to come in line with other powers around that level. twin spell has a sorcery point cost and also uses the 2nd spell slot. The issue is that it lets you target your level# of targets instead of 1. so your action economy instantly increases by 17x for a big chunk of very powerful abilities, ie haste, slow, fly, telekinesis, heal, polymorph, it makes you simultaneously the best damage dealer, healer, and buffer (depending on what power ranks you took) - if you still had to expend those power uses that would help limit it but it would still be very very powerful to be able to haste, or fly, or heal your entire party (something that doesn't happen in 5e due to the concentration mechanic)





    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    I am not/can not write for people who are going to play with/allow "dipping" in their games. If folks want to play that way, great. But to play that way and say "Hey, then this is broken!"...DUH! Dipping ought not be allowed and if your game permits it...you get whatever broken/OP'd/powergamed nonsense you get (and ultimately, want, don't they?).

    Default game, without the OPTIONAL [3e-style] multi-classing rules, doesn't worry about this. I'll write for that.
    Fair enough, I personally dont like dipping for the powergamer sense of oooh look i get that special power, however I do like it for the RP sense of not every barbarian has the same experience, some are more martial, some more roguish, some more mystical so having a few levels in another class allows them to not only RP that they are a bit of a physical mystic but also gain some powers from it. The way 5e is built, currently, multiclassing is rarely optimal anyways (except maybe wizards taking some cleric or sorcerer since their capstone ability sucks)


    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Using a power/talent takes an action...unless otherwise specified. Why? How much distinction should there be? I could rework the multi-layered mind thing that the second power/talent being used gets to be a "bonus action"...does make it, somehow, more enticing or make more sense, in 5e terminology.
    It doesn't make it more enticing but specifying what actions different talents/powers use does make more sense. You can look at it from a couple perspectives. 1. If they all take an action : this means you will never use a bonus action, or a reaction (with the exception of opporuntity attack)
    also if they all take an action then you forceably can't attack and then use a power/talent eg. you can't attack and then misty step away you either run away with misty-step or stand and fight.
    2. if talents take a bonus action and powers take an action - you can attack and use a talent, or use a power and a talent each turn (this could also be part of a class feature similar to Eldritch Knight)
    3. each power/talent is specified, ie as a bonus action you can activate psi-armor, as an action you manifest thought shield, as an action you manifest Haste as a rank 3 power, as a reaction you manifest shield as a rank 1 power - so on one turn you could activate psi armor then share it around to your party with thought shield, but you could not use thought shield and haste together since they both take a full action.



    Quote Originally Posted by steeldragons View Post
    Oo, good question. No! Powers are the ranks they are for your "access/unlocking" of them. They function as the "spell level" they are. That is all. Any alterations to that or '"expansions" of its powers for the psychic [that differ from the spell] would be included in the power description...but they were not written/placed/intended/will not "scale" like spells do.

    At 20th level, you'll have [or can potentially have] 5 ranks in one suite, and up to 5 ranks in a second (more likely, I think, this will be spread out for 1-2-3 ranks in an assortment of powers, for most players).
    while i think that limiting the spells to their base level is an interesting mechanic for limiting the class (ie the class makes up for that in other ways able to hit more targets with single target, or more versatility etc) it could have some bad character design consequences too. ie things like cure wounds are great at lvl 2, but 1d8 hps at lvl 10-15 is nothing (thus why it would almost always be ranked up)




    K i'm overtired now, i'll look at the rest of your responses tomorrow. Thanks for the discourse!

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