D&D 5E Bard concept help + Polymorph

sithramir

First Post
I am starting a new campaign and would love some opinions/help on what i've got for a Bard. The concept as I got to creating him is that he does not use weapons. He "wields" his lute using his instruments as a focus during battle. Kind of like wading through using his spells to harm his foes, help his friends, etc. This is Level 8 Lore Bard and thus will use Cutting Words to minimize attacks/damage. He is coming off as a Spy/Hired killer. Backstory is he worked with a group and the benefactor and him no longer see eye to eye on his future. Thus he's out adventuring but has spy contacts and might take a job in his downtime to help some agency with whatever "spy stuff" might become needed.

The thoughts I wanted were this:

In terms of bard spells, the following have been most useful:
Cantrips: Mage Hand, Message, Vicious Mockery
Level 1: Disguise Self, Healing Word, Thunderwave
Level 2: Suggestion, Hold Person, Invisibility, Shatter
Level 3: Hypnotic Pattern, Major Image
Level 4: Polymorph, Greater Invisibility
Magical Secrets: Fireball, Counterspell

1) Polymorph: I wanted this spell as a way to be able to fly, change shape, hide when invisiblity or something might not work, etc. No plans on melee usage. But I learned this only works to turn yourself into beasts and basically that's animals and dinosaurs. Is it worth it? I feel it's not good but still has some versatility and nothing great to replace it.

2) Fireball: We did a session going through what we did at "lower level without any fights" to determine plots, some background, and loot. I now have a Wand of Fireballs. SO i'm not sure I need to have fireball as a spell for magical secrets. But not sure what else is best. I feel i've got offense covered (and would probably use hypnotic patter for area effect for 3rd level anyways). Thoughts?

I was thinking maybe Fly (and not use polymorph?) or Spiritual Weapon for extra non-concentration damage. I don't want Aura of Vitality (HD + song of rest is plenty of healing to me) or Haste (concentration and I have too many of those plus won't be using weapons).

3) Magic Initiate: This will be my 1st level feat. I was going to do Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion, Hex. I thought this would give me a good nonweapon attack (+ range) and Hex could boost damage for when i'm not using spell slots. Hex works decent if I can get a few battles in a dungeon with that slot. However, i'm not convinced I need Hex at this level. I'll be able to cast in several fights starting at higher level and maybe it's not worth it. I was debating maybe Shield or Absorb Elements (from Elementel Evil) instead and using Firebolt as the damage cantrip instead.

I likely am boosting Cha at level 8 and probably taking the Eberron Dragon Tattooe feat for some spells ( Misty step, Expeditious Retreat).

Any thoughts would be helpful as I try to debate if I NEED to change anything, etc. Thanks all!
 

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BiPolar

Villager
Love your bard concept. It's very similar to mine, minus the spy/killer bit.

I'm currently at level 5 and have forgone weapons after my DM rolled a crazy horde treasure and I got one of the Instruments of the Bard (CLI Lyre). Since it requires it to be played to cast spells, I hold and play it during battle.

With that in mind, I've become a battlefield manager with some damage spells to do while I'm concentrating on those management spells.

No issue with your cantrips - I've got the same :)

Level 1 - You do need Disguise Self to fit in with your background, but I'd seriously try to find a way to get Faerie Fire. Giving your party advantage on attacks is no joke. I'd recommend dropping suggestion/shatter.

Level 2 - Hold person and invisibility are great here, but ifyou've got greater, I'd drop Invisibility. You should also seriously consider Heat Metal. If you fight anyone wearing armor, that's basically auto damage.

Level 3 - Perfect

Level 4 - Polymorph I don't think makes sense. I'd go with Compulsion, Confusion, or Dimension Door. All can be used to good effect, and the latter may make most sense with your background, but first two can be fun. I'd rank confusion lowest simply because it only affects a 10' radius and that limits it's impact.

Magical Secrets - You don't need fireball since you have the wand. If you want another good AOE, I'd look into Hunger of Hadar. Aura of Vitality is an awesome out of combat healing spell. Haste is awesome if you've got someone who can really use it in your party, but it's another concentration spell. Given that you aren't holding weapons, I'd seriously consider Eldritch Blast or holding off on your secrets for 2 levels so you can do a Warlock dip and get blast and invocation to add your charisma modifier to damage.
 

sithramir

First Post
Thanks for taking the time to help!

Love your bard concept. It's very similar to mine, minus the spy/killer bit.

I'm currently at level 5 and have forgone weapons after my DM rolled a crazy horde treasure and I got one of the Instruments of the Bard (CLI Lyre). Since it requires it to be played to cast spells, I hold and play it during battle.

With that in mind, I've become a battlefield manager with some damage spells to do while I'm concentrating on those management spells.

No issue with your cantrips - I've got the same :)

Level 1 - You do need Disguise Self to fit in with your background, but I'd seriously try to find a way to get Faerie Fire. Giving your party advantage on attacks is no joke. I'd recommend dropping suggestion/shatter.

I like Faerie Fire. It's powerful but just feeling this character isn't the typical "boost allies". He's really taking the wizard role of the group and not much buffing. Hold Person stops an enemy. It still is great to allies to allow them to beat down the held enemy but it still stopped the enemy. I guess i'm saying this character is a bit greedy in that regards.

Level 2 - Hold person and invisibility are great here, but ifyou've got greater, I'd drop Invisibility. You should also seriously consider Heat Metal. If you fight anyone wearing armor, that's basically auto damage.

See i've debated this some. Seems rough to use my highest level slot when I need to be invisible for something like scouting or sneaking. I'm inclined to drop the Greater but it's good in combat. Just not sure i'd use it in combat unless really hurt and if really hurt why not just use invis. Probably not worth having both though.

Level 3 - Perfect

Level 4 - Polymorph I don't think makes sense. I'd go with Compulsion, Confusion, or Dimension Door. All can be used to good effect, and the latter may make most sense with your background, but first two can be fun. I'd rank confusion lowest simply because it only affects a 10' radius and that limits it's impact.

Yeah. I'm thinking Dimension Door might be good. It's just pretty short range. I think i'm avoiding Compulsion/Confusion because I have Hold Person/Suggestion and can use higher slots to hit more with those anyways. The biggest issue is Polymorph is a spell that I can get fly from and use for interesting shapes like hiding in a forest as an animal or something. It can be used in battle too if need be. If it said "Like Alter Self + you can change into Beasts it'd be awesome. The problem now is I can' t use it to try to look like another humanoid which seems foolish.

Magical Secrets - You don't need fireball since you have the wand. If you want another good AOE, I'd look into Hunger of Hadar. Aura of Vitality is an awesome out of combat healing spell. Haste is awesome if you've got someone who can really use it in your party, but it's another concentration spell. Given that you aren't holding weapons, I'd seriously consider Eldritch Blast or holding off on your secrets for 2 levels so you can do a Warlock dip and get blast and invocation to add your charisma modifier to damage.

Yeah I mentioned those 2 as i can't imagine needing more non combat healing with Song of Rest and Hit Dice. Haste is ok but too many concentrations and no use with a free action. I'm not trying to buff others really so just not fitting the style. This is where i'm stuck. I was thinking Fly spell would be good. (I took Eldritch blast with Magic Initiate)
 

BiPolar

Villager
If you aren't really a buffer, then definitely skip faerie fire. It's a good spell, but if it doesn't fit with your RP, then not a good choice :)

As for invisibility I agree. You just nee done, it's a matter of the very powerful greater for a high level slot or the regular for more discrete uses.

If you really just want Polymorph to Fly, then just grab the Fly spell:) As a polymorph you turn into a bird, with bird HP and don't get your powers/abilities and it's more to turn unwilling creatures into something easy to manage rather than yourself. No speaking, spells, any actions that require your normal form are impossible. Dimension Door kinda fits with you, too.

Since not a buffer, I'd skip haste and look at Hunger/Fly.
 

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