D&D 5E [GUIDE] Arrive on Time - A General Guide to Wizardry

mellored · Dec 9, 2015

TheBigHouse said:
Or bladesinger with booming blade

My next character is a warlock 7 / rogue 2 with greater invisiblity (2x per short rest), booming blade, and warcaster.
Hiding above people and daring them to move.

And yea, winged tielfings don't have armor restrictions, but i don't see how that benifits Dex attackers much.

Also, mobility + booming blade let's you hit and run.

NADRIGOL · Dec 9, 2015

TheBigHouse said:
Or bladesinger with booming blade

I've been trying to figure out how to best use the new cantrips... and I think I mostly agree with TreantMonk's ideas; They're just not great on a Bladesinger X (except maybe in a TWF Haste situation). But a flying Tiefling Arcane Trickster with a bladesinger 2 dip could be awesome... Dropping in on big targets and getting off a booming blade with a free disengage. Probably a bunch of sneak attack damage too. Maybe add two levels of tempest domain to maximize that damage (too far...).

NADRIGOL · Dec 9, 2015

mellored said:
And yea, winged tielfings don't have armor restrictions, but i don't see how that benifits Dex attackers much.

It doesn't benefit dex attackers at all really... I was suggesting it for the Fighter/Abjurer tank/caster build presented in the guide as an interesting mobility twist. That build is pretty dex-independent.

mellored · Dec 9, 2015

NADRIGOL said:
It doesn't benefit dex attackers at all really... I was suggesting it for the Fighter/Abjurer tank/caster build presented in the guide as an interesting mobility twist. That build is pretty dex-independent.

You still need some stat to attack with, and i don't see Str being better then Dex since you don't have multi-attack to scale the weapon damage.
You can't use shield master with booming blade either.

Heavy armor + shillelagh works, but i don't think there's a way to get it with Int.

NADRIGOL · Dec 9, 2015

mellored said:
You still need some stat to attack with, and i don't see Str being better then Dex since you don't have multi-attack to scale the weapon damage.
You can't use shield master with booming blade either.

Heavy armor + shillelagh works, but i don't think there's a way to get it with Int.

This is why we have at-will cantrips... Wizards don't attack things with weapons like animals... They manipulate raw strands of magical reality and tell reality to go f*ck itself. Intelligence is the stat a pure wizard attacks with.

mellored · Dec 9, 2015

NADRIGOL said:
This is why we have at-will cantrips... Wizards don't attack things with weapons like animals... They manipulate raw strands of magical reality and tell reality to go f*ck itself. Intelligence is the stat a pure wizard attacks with.

With firebolt sure.

Booming blade doesn't care how smart you are.

TheBigHouse · Dec 9, 2015

NADRIGOL said:
I've been trying to figure out how to best use the new cantrips... and I think I mostly agree with TreantMonk's ideas; They're just not great on a Bladesinger X (except maybe in a TWF Haste situation). But a flying Tiefling Arcane Trickster with a bladesinger 2 dip could be awesome... Dropping in on big targets and getting off a booming blade with a free disengage. Probably a bunch of sneak attack damage too. Maybe add two levels of tempest domain to maximize that damage (too far...).

I agree that the cantrips arent that great on a pure bladesinger, which is too bad. As I said, pure bladesinger is better off being a spellcaster that has amazing defenses and concentration when needed. To really make the cantrips shine, you need some multiclassing (or to be an EK). For pure bladesinger i think green flame is superior to booming. It scales with int and its easier to get the 2nd target than to proc booming blade without some cheese.

So our winged feral tiefling booming blade guy will probably not be a pure wizard, but its still a good race choice.

Also, a winged feral tiefling any other school also works great.

In terms of heavy armor melee wizards, I think only way i would do it is with warcaster and substituting a int based cantrip for my attack. That was an okay build until the new cantrips came along and made it irrelevant.

Alternatively, just wearing heavy armor and hanging out in the back and using ranged cantrips also works. Then you can just take the -10 speed.

NADRIGOL · Dec 9, 2015

TheBigHouse said:
In terms of heavy armor melee wizards, I think only way i would do it is with warcaster and substituting a int based cantrip for my attack. That was an okay build until the new cantrips came along and made it irrelevant.

I guess my point is that I believe there is still a place for a two level Fighter dip for AC and Action Surge in a typical Wizard build. The balance of trading some high level spell slots and Signature Spell for these benefits hasn't changed with the addition of the new cantrips, which simply work better with EK's and AT's (and just barely bladesingers).

NADRIGOL · Dec 9, 2015

TheBigHouse said:
I agree that the cantrips arent that great on a pure bladesinger, which is too bad. As I said, pure bladesinger is better off being a spellcaster that has amazing defenses and concentration when needed. To really make the cantrips shine, you need some multiclassing (or to be an EK). For pure bladesinger i think green flame is superior to booming. It scales with int and its easier to get the 2nd target than to proc booming blade without some cheese.

So our winged feral tiefling booming blade guy will probably not be a pure wizard, but its still a good race choice.

Also, a winged feral tiefling any other school also works great.

In terms of heavy armor melee wizards, I think only way i would do it is with warcaster and substituting a int based cantrip for my attack. That was an okay build until the new cantrips came along and made it irrelevant.

Alternatively, just wearing heavy armor and hanging out in the back and using ranged cantrips also works. Then you can just take the -10 speed.

I think I missed you specifying "melee wizard" and your last paragraph... I think we're having a heated agreement.

mellored · Dec 9, 2015

TheBigHouse said:
In terms of heavy armor melee wizards, I think only way i would do it is with warcaster and substituting a int based cantrip for my attack. That was an okay build until the new cantrips came along and made it irrelevant.

I can still see plenty of reasonable low Int wizard builds.

magic missile, fog cloud, cloud of dagger, greater invisibility, haste, fly, teleport, polymorph (friendly) force cage, foresight, ect... none require Int.
And most of the 1/2 damage ones don't lose too much either.

You mostly just lose out on the save-or-suck spells like hold person or mass suggestion. Which is a reasonable trade-off.

D&D 5E [GUIDE] Arrive on Time - A General Guide to Wizardry

mellored

Legend

NADRIGOL

Explorer

NADRIGOL

Explorer

mellored

Legend

NADRIGOL

Explorer

mellored

Legend

TheBigHouse

Explorer

NADRIGOL

Explorer

NADRIGOL

Explorer

mellored

Legend

Similar Threads