Classless d20 rules found! Get 'em while they're hot!
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  1. #1

    Classless d20 rules found! Get 'em while they're hot!

    Here is a link to Red Leaf Games "d(liberation)20" classless rules for all d20 games, and D&D3e in particular. Available as a free downloadable pdf (53 pages). Turns all class abilities into feats. Interesting--not perfect--but a new revised version is on the way. Worth a look!

    http://www.continuum.org/llanade/red...beration20.php

  2. #2
    First glance is interesting... I'll post a more detailed review this weekend.

  3. #3

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    Re: Classless d20 rules found! Get 'em while they're hot!

    Originally posted by Kaptain_Kantrip
    Here is a link to Red Leaf Games "d(liberation)20" classless rules for all d20 games, and D&D3e in particular. Available as a free downloadable pdf (53 pages). Turns all class abilities into feats. Interesting--not perfect--but a new revised version is on the way. Worth a look!

    http://www.continuum.org/llanade/red...beration20.php
    Very nice. I'll get my players to try to abuse this and see if it's broken. First skimming of the document makes me think that this might just rock.

    Outergod

    "IncantaTAR BEAOOOTCH!"

  4. #4
    When reviewing, let us know how it stacks up to the classless rules on rpgcosmos.com, if you could!

  5. #5

    Waghalter (Lvl 7)

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    Hmmm... interesting.

    The Good...
    BAB and saves are treated as skills; it seems like it might work.
    Lots of class abilities translated as feats... ROB!

    The Bad...

    Good lord, they go through some backflips to get magic to work someting like d20 system magic!

    Lots of formulas at every step of the way.

    No structure... I feel if you are going to do this sort of thing, you need SOME structure.

    Naturally abuse prone, like such systems typically are.

    Bottom line: A few clever bits, but I wouldn't expect it to take the d20 world by storm. If you like this sort of thing, you are probably already playing HERO or GURPS.

  6. #6
    I don't have the time to read through them now, but let me throw in support for some reviews on this. It sounds intriguing, but of course the real question is: does it work? Will my ranger be broken (hehe)?

  7. #7

    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)

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    In general, you pick feats for your character.

    I don't think any one character would be "broken"; but certainly, it would be easier to min/max a specific character. (By taking all the best feats as soon as possible and forgetting about pointless ones.) All characters in the same party should have a similar power level, although the game may have a bias towards melee fighters, or ranged fighters, or sneaky thieves, or whatever.

    I've looked it over and I think the feats need more pre-requisites (to keep abilities in a logical progression ). Such as:
    Evasion
    You are skilled at evading damage.
    Prerequisite: Dex 13+, Tumble: 4+ ranks, Jump: 4+ ranks.
    or something similar.

    Casting spells could be like dis:
    Take a feat and get access to the (restricted) skill Wizard Magic. The skill Wizard Magic has a whole bunch of things in it, such as: Casting a spell of x level means you have to beat a DC of x. Preparing a spell of x level means you have to beat a DC of x. The highest level spell you could prepare would be a function of your ranks in the skill, as would the number of times per day you could cast that spell.
    Sorcerers could have a totally different skill: Sorcery. As above, but the ranks in the skill limits the number of spells known and the number of times per day it can be cast (although in a different fashion).

    Although I'd have to do the math on the ranks and DCs and all that.

  8. #8
    It's interesting to compare the d(liberation)20 system to Khepri's CCE (Class Construction Engine). The CCE allows you to make your own class rather than having a classless system like d(liberation)20. Certainly the CCE is simpler and easier to employ.

    I have used the CCE with good results but I must confess to being deeply intrigued by d(liberation)20... I loved GURPS character creation but hated everything else about GURPS, LOL, so things like d(liberation)20 and CCE allow me to have the type of freedom and control I love over character concepts while still playing in the d20/D&D game I enjoy.

    Ultimately, I think that at least as it is currently written, d(liberation) isa too complicated for me or my group to employ, whereas the CCE is no trouble at all (ok, only a little trouble). Red Leaf Games has promised a new streamlined version of the d(liberation)20 rules in the near future, which is something I eagerly await.
    Last edited by Kaptain_Kantrip; Thursday, 21st February, 2002 at 08:58 AM.

  9. #9

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    The URL, Mearl

    And Khepri's CCE would be found where?

  10. #10

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    Kaptain Kantrip, "Lord of the Links" strikes again!
    Thanks for the link (I already knew it, but I had forgotten...).

    I used the d(20)liberation once or two, but I found it a bit too 'backengineered". I mean, it's a system done to try to conform to the standard classes, but as (IMHO) standard classes aren't done following a system (I think they are done "hand made" after lots of playtesting...) it looks a bit artificial...

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