Star Wars 5th edition

fjw70 said:

The prof bonus being added to attacks and defense canceling each other out assumes that you are always fighting something of the same level. My thought behind adding the prof bonus was that you shouldn't need armor or high dex to have a decent defense but if each class will be using a primary stat to add to defense then I guess that works too.

If you have it worked out how are you doing lightsaber deflecting and reflecting of blaster bolts?

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I agree, characters in Star Wars tend not to wear a lot of armor. The whole idea behind SWSE was to discourage you from wearing armor. I think that wearing armor will come in handy in certain scenarios (such as armor w/ built-in life support and you're in space) but that should be the exception not the norm.

As for lightsaber deflect/reflect, it's the same as in SWSE: you make a Wisdom (Use the Force) check and if you beat the attack roll in question, the blaster shot is deflected. You can reflect the shot by making another attack roll, if it beats the target's Defense score then it takes the damage. Did you have a different idea or suggestion for this mechanic?

Edit: Having given it some thought, I likely will change this mechanic around. As it stands, it's an all-or-nothing effect, you either deflect the blaster bolt or you get hit. In D&D, the Monk's deflect missile ability lets him REDUCE DAMAGE from ranged attacks, and if he reduces it to 0, he's able to reflect the attack. Seeing how Jedi are hard to kill with blasters and the like, IMO it would make more sense game-mechanic wise for lightsaber deflect/reflect to function similar to that.

I didn't have any other ideas. Just curious.

At one point in the D&D next play test I did play around with using fighter superiority dice to emulate the Jedi but I didn't take it very far.

fjw70 said:

I didn't have any other ideas. Just curious.

At one point in the D&D next play test I did play around with using fighter superiority dice to emulate the Jedi but I didn't take it very far.

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That's an interesting idea, using the fighter superiority dice. I'll have to play around w/ that idea and see what comes of it.

Now, I have another question for you and anyone else reading this forum. Regarding the Jedi class, I need everyone's opinion. Should I keep the Jedi as one class or break it down into two? Let me explain:

A.) Jedi is not one but two classes, the Jedi Consular and the Jedi Knight (just like in the MMORPG). The Jedi Consular will eventually have the ability to further specialize into either the Jedi Sage or the Jedi Shadow. The Jedi Knight will have the ability to specialize into either the Jedi Guardian or the Jedi Sentinel.

B.) Jedi remains one class, and instead everyone will have to choose one of 3 roles: Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel, each role granting unique abilities etc.

I'm kinda leaning more towards option A just for simplicity's sake, however I want to see everyone else's opinions on this matter.

Edit: The reason I'm debating this is because it seems like Jedi have far too many abilities and powers for any one class to have. Jedi are able to deflect blaster shots, use the Force, are amazing duelists using the lightsaber, etc. Also, they specialize between the 3 roles of Consular, Guardian, and Sentinel, once they reach a certain level they become Jedi Knights (and later Jedi Masters) which increases their powers even further. It's just plain difficult trying to build a single class that incorporates all of that while keeping it balanced. I can do it, just seems like for simplicity's sake it would be much easier to break Jedi into 2 classes, each one focusing on something different.

I am not well versed in the Jedi knight vs consular split of previous SW games, but such a split always seemed weird to me. So I would lean towards option B since to me a Jedi is a Jedi.

So how would you describe the difference between a consular and a knight? Do you have movie examples of each?

I'd prefer option b) with subclasses.

If I was doing it, I'd probably look to very heavily re-skin the Warlock and Monk. Warlock spellcasting seems appropriate (per encounter spellcasting seems more appropriate than daily, and even powerful force users like Yoda and Palpatine rarely seem to use more than 3-4 powers in a single encounter), as does clearly Monk deflect/reflect. Probably also slowfall. In fact, as a starting point I'd combine all non-ki based Monk powers and Warlock spellcasting in a single class, modify the spell list to be more appropriate (thunderwave, witch bolt, enhance ability, suggestion, jump, cure/cause wounds, various divination spells, etc. - probably some combination of Warlock, Paladin and Bard spells) and see where that got me. In essence you're swapping Monk ki-powers for Warlock spellcasting, which seems fairly balanced at first blush as both are one of the major abilities of the class. You could then keep standard Warlocks in the game to represent non-Jedi Force using traditions like Nightsisters, etc. (rather than having the monk like abilities they'd get Invocations and patron/pact abilities).

From there you could sprinkle in consular/guardian/sentinel subclasses (and why stop there - you could borrow a leaf from FFG and add seeker, mystic and warrior as well!)

Personally, I wouldn't worry about Knight/Master other than as titles... the movies fairly clearly showed that these things aren't necessarily about power "level" so much as about politics.

I would go with Option B, however would not put an in game mechanic for Jedi Knight/Master. Those are titles and such should really only carry a social or political (read as RP) bonuses, not neccessarily a boost in power such as how the force is used or power in combat. In My mind that alone comes from experience. Plenty of in universe examples of individual Jedi's that Rival a master's power with out ever being conferred that title.

Depending on time frame, a simple force adept could fill the role, Take Force Adept, and chose a Specialization/Path it could be Jedi or could be as varied as a Shaman, Witch, Self Taught... But the basis for Powers and such follow the same structure.

I persoanally enjoyed just about every version of star wars, except the most recent incarnation, however have found that D20 versions lack something, not sure if it is the skill systems or just the D20 progression of Base Attack and leveling. I use Savage Worlds to run my home campaign of star wars. My though it represents the quick action and with the portability of it's rules system allows you to bring in just about any creature/ability/"class" with minimal effort.

Just my two cents... but still look forward to what you come up with.

Thinking about it a bit more, there probably isn't too much to do. Keep barbarian, rogue, fighter, create a jedi class as per above (and possibly keep both monks and warlocks as well), but strip out the other spellcasting classes. Maybe come up with a non-spellcasting bard/warlord/diplomat type class as well which has some of the bards leadership abilities but no spells. Maybe look at doing the same for ranger (aka bounty hunter).

Create/modify races and backgrounds (this will be most of the work), use the futuristic equipment out of the DMG, make up some stats for a lightsaber (maybe just use Sun Blade stats... a +2 finesse longsword that does radiant damage and emits light probably isn't a big deal in a game where most opponents are armed with blasters which do 3d6/3d8 radiant damage...). Create a couple of new skills - technology and lore (which replaces arcana/religion), and think about non-weapon equipment and proficiencies.

Ok, maybe there is more than I initially thought... but I wouldn't go making wholesale changes to 5e - seems to me that most of the major moving bits are there, with a bit of reskinning.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm working on implementing them and making adjustments as we speak. I'll check back soon, thanks for the suggestions!

famouswolfe said:

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm working on implementing them and making adjustments as we speak. I'll check back soon, thanks for the suggestions!

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Happy to help. I'm currently trying to do something similar for Shadowrun, so keen to see what you come up with. Also keen to try this out at some stage, as I'm a massive SW fan and the group I play with are pretty hesitant to try anything that isn't D&D.

I've been kicking this idea around for a minute, being a big fan of both SWSE & the new D&D, but I haven't really had the time to mess with it too much, so I'm psyched to see what you come up with. A couple thoughts:

I'd consider bumping the blasters down to 2d# damage instead of 3d#. In 5E, ranged attacks add your Dexterity modifier to damage, which they did not in SE. Having blasters do three dice of damage and add an ability bonus is going to make melee even more of an underpowered and un-fun choice than it was in SE.

GET RID OF THE USE THE FORCE SKILL. My #1 biggest problem with SE by far. Taking the Skill Focus (Use the Force) feat for a 1/2 level + Charisma modifier + 10 bonus to use your Force powers pretty much broke the game. If you leave Use the Force as a skill, you're gonna see a lot of Scoundrel 1/Jedi X builds to get Expertise (Use the Force) and it'll be all over again. Sticking with the spell saving throw and attack formulas used by the caster classes in the 5E PHB will save a lot of headaches.

Proficiency bonus or a second ability modifier to Defense (AC)? There's some merit to both. I get not wanting to get back on the 3.5/SE/4E treadmill, but mathematically the two methods aren't that far off from one another. Assuming one character starts with a 16 in Dexterity and a 16 in their class' other Unarmored Defense ability (easily done at 1st level with the standard array and an optimal species choice) and bumps them with their ability score improvements, and the other does so with their Dexterity and adds proficiency, here's how the two stack up over the levels where they'll both increase for a single-classed character:
The proficiency method gets off to a slower start, but catches up by 5th level. From there on out it raised Defense just a little ahead of the two-ability method until 17th level, where it caps out 1 point higher than the alternative.

I'd say the strongest case for the two-ability method is that a precedent in the core rules (barbarian & monk) is always a nice thing to have when homebrewing. It also supports a little role enforcement—nobles will almost always have a good Charisma, Jedi will almost always have a good Wisdom. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. Good in that it will help define the PCs into neat niches, which can be helpful. Bad in that playing the Charismatic Scoundrel is a "worse choice" (balance-wise) than playing the Smart Scoundrel, which can kinda suck if you like playing characters that go against rules-defined archetypes.

There is one big reason I'm firmly in favor of the proficiency bonus method instead of the two-ability method: a Scoundrel 3/Scout 3/Soldier 3 will not have ANY ability score improvements at all, since you get those based on class level and not total character level. That character will not have seen its Defense/AC increase at all over 9 levels, which I don't like. That said, maybe that character should just strap on some armor. I dunno. I think proficiency + Dex is overall easier and less wonky.