Star Wars 5th edition

Look, I actually preferred the 3E system of having a lot of ability modifiers added to things, like INT to skills. I guess this was removed to better 'balance' the classes. (Balance being one of my most hated words. Important, but not the first consideration for me). I would love to see +INT mod to skills, but to be closer to 5E I would not go that route.

Re classes. Man, that IS a tough one. I have thought about it myself a bit. I am not sure what I would do re Jedi especially. I have even considered using the basic fighter and monk classes adjusting where necessary. Is Jedi a class, or can you be a Jedi in different ways? Classes for 5E Star Wars would be very hard.

However, one of the strengths (IMO) of Saga was porting a lot of the Force stuff to Feats and talents. I would NOT be limiting archetypes like pilot to subclasses. Pilots should come from all walks of life in a setting that relies heavily upon it. Imagine having a Driver subclass for rogues in a Modern D&D setting. Wouldn't the other classes want to be the best drivers too? That would be odd.

My suggestion is go with Feats for such general ideas FIRST. Look at 5E and mounted combat. That is your comparison for vehicle operation and combat in my eyes.

Sure, there can also be an archetype/subclass that takes this even further (such as a cavalier type subclass for fighter), but the cool options for piloting must be open to most.

Bounty hunters are different again. As it is such a broad concept, anyone can say they are a BH. Again, if you have a subclass give it a specific kind of spin. I mean in 5E isn't it a Background?

You might be better sticking to a lot of the talent trees for you subclasses really. Sure, some of the old PrC's would fit, but most PrC were designed so that people from different classes could take them. That is intentional design and I wouldn't limit that going forward with 5E.

I would probably look at something like monk as the chassis on which to build a Jedi, but you would need a tougher version too.

The whole 'what is a class?' is not as easy at it seems converting to 5E. I have pondered it and have gone back on forth a lot myself. More than one Force User class? Do Scouts and Scoundrels need separate classes? (I am yes at the moment). Do you narrow the actual classes and expand the subclasses or do you divide into more classes? It is hard to say, but as soon as you put something into one class (or subclass) remember that cuts the option off for everyone else (barring multi-classing). Good luck

See this was my problem also... I really love the way DnD 5th handles combat and stuff and while I am fine with classes that determine your "path" for fantasy for Star Wars I wanted something different. I guess I wanted more freedom to determine my character's path. So if I am a Jedi I could take some Guardian and some Diplomatic stuff, I would not be forced down one path. So my big huge post below here about 5th ed./Saga hybrid is where I went. My idea was that feats and talents would replace most class abilities and feats from 5th ed.

Its a challenge to decide which way to go with this.

Classes are the hard one. Fact of the matter is, that not all Star Wars classes from Saga are clearly defined archetypes. There is SO much scope for a scoundrel or scout (and then Jedi are specific archetypes only for SW). D&D has had classes for so long, so they are ingrained in us what exactly they are and what they do.

Let's not forget that selecting a subclass does not completely limit your path though. It offers a few specialisations, that is all. There are PLENTY of other levels where you can still get other stuff/features. I don't have a problem with the levels gained from subclasses being a little restrictive or 'focussed'; that is the point of a subclass.

I am merely saying that the subclass is not the ONLY place to put something that is very inherent to the game; like piloting star craft in Star Wars.

Sure, have a Scout "Explorer of Worlds" that might have some good vehicle op features, but these must work WITH other vehicle op features open to all, like feats.

All of this then makes actual subclasses harder to place into Star Wars, but it can be done. In fact, a lot of the talent trees would be a good place to start - just don't try and bash all features into the subclass. Some won't fit, some might be good for the actual class, some might be good for feats, etc.

I hope this makes sense

Alrighty everyone, first off let me say that I absolutely LOVE the feedback I'm getting here. I value and appreciate everyone's input and opinions. I definitely did not envision this to be a one-man project but a labor of love with support from the SWSE community.

Now, let's really delve into class design for a minute. Saga edition's strength is it's flexibility. You can pick your class/feats/talents and really create the character of your dreams. Unfortunately, that same blessing is also one of it's pitfalls. In the (admittedly few) Saga games I've GM'ed or played in, most campaigns devolved into (sarcastic tone) "oh joy another level, roll some HP and pick another feat/talent *yawn* This will be much more interesting once my build comes together in another 8 levels." As a side note, I've seen a lot of people complain that Jedi outshine all the other classes and how everyone else amounts to basically Jedi sidekicks. When D&D 4th edition came out, they "fixed" that issue by implementing a rail-road cookie-cutter approach to classes. They sacrificed that flexibility to give us more exciting characters to play. Honestly, I hated how much they sacrificed that class malleability. In my opinion, 5E represents a better approach to having flexible characters with exciting classes to play.

So, where does that leave us now? I'll admit, I may have gotten a bit overzealous in my goal to bring Saga up to 5E. Instead of throwing out the flexibility that Saga gives us, why not embrace it? Let it be the thing that SEPARATES Star Wars from D&D 5E (in a good way). So, what I'm suggesting is to take a more free/liberal approach to class design. My idea: classes will still get feats/talents, just not as frequent. On the upside, they will be more powerful (most will scale or improve with class level). Some character options like starship pilots or the bounty hunter will have talents that are available to EVERYONE, however some things will remain class specific (obviously you'd have to be a Jedi in order to become a Jedi Battlemaster). You will still have your staple 5E core abilities like extra attack at 5th level for example. Yes, this means I'm gonna hop back into my game-design chair and redesign (for the 3rd time lol) the Jedi class, however I think this time will be golden.

I really want everyone to be excited to ROLE-play their characters. Nothing like that feeling of "I can't wait until I get X ability next level!" or "I love my character <3" I definitely want to avoid everyone feeling like they're playing another run-of-the-mill Jedi until he's 10th level and suddenly his build comes together. Every level yields an exciting new improvement.

Also, regarding Jedi "magic" or Force powers, I've always seen it equivalent to the Psion/Psionic Warrior of D&D, the theme and trope just seems to fit. I definitely feel that using 5E's "spell slot" system feels way out of place in Star Wars. I'm not exactly a fan of Saga's way of doing the Force either, with you having all of your Force powers as encounter powers that recharge after a fight. My idea was to use the Monk's Ki points (Force points) only expand upon that and make the system a bit more robust.

Thanks again for your continued feedback and support! If you have any ideas, please feel free to share them! There's plenty of room in the credits section of my book lol. Seriously though, this game is for gamers by gamers lol. Until next time!

Okay, I am not sure about the Saga-approach to talents/feats. I loved it for Saga, but if you are going down the 5E track, I would honestly stick to 5E classes and subclasses. But we never have the 'problem' of waiting for the character idea to take shape. My players are very comfortable with low level play.

Not sure you really need a conversion per se if you are sticking to Saga classes.

I would just rework the existing classes to fit. And yes, Monk would probably be your best fit for Jedi. But maybe with Ranger-like spell slots (sorry, Force points ). In fact the way ranger works might be best. You have spells/Force powers, but you can also burn them to do other things. Some combo Ranger/Monk would cover it maybe.

In any case, I would say people are here to see 5E classes and subclasses. I actually LOVE subclasses. It is a great way to bring in archetypes specific to settings without rewriting whole classes.

Still, I am interested to see where your ideas are taking you. (One day, I may have a go at writing 5E SW classes too, but for now we a re using Cypher System for our SW games).

Different strokes for different folks then I just can't see the way 5th ed. does classes working for anything but the simplest of games. Why are all Ace-Pilots Scouts (or Rangers or Fighters for that matter), why is it if a I pick the Jedi Guardian archetype can I never pick up any of the Consular or Sentinel abilities?

I guess I get kind of where you are both coming from but would not want to play it that way. 5th is great for Dungeons and Dragons but if you want to expand it to a more modern/future/sci fantasy setting something has to change in the design idea, at least IMO. Tastes may vary

So good luck with working it out, I will watch with interest even if I can not add anything of value

[MENTION=6801242]GreenKarl[/MENTION]

I have stated several times I agree on the Pilot idea. It is not a subclass - it is essential to ALL characters in a Star Wars universe. The Jedi, I agree, are going to be hard, but remember, subclasses are ONLY a few features at set levels to distinguish those Guardians from Sentinels. All other class features and choices are available. Rather than seeing as not being able to choose, maybe view it as a few extra features that help define the concept. Otherwise why even have classes?

Anyway, I see where you are coming from. SAGA was good at what it did, but I actually disliked that you could choose from ANY talent all the time. Why even bother with the Talent Trees? Can there be too much too much choice and therefore no meaningful character concepts? I am not sure - I like both games. I have played Star Wars using d6, d20, SAGA, Savage Worlds, Bashed & Borrowed (our own game rules heavily influenced by SW) and now Cypher System.

It is a very hard decision, but if this is a '5E' conversion, then I would imagine most people are looking for classes and subclasses. But as you said each to their own and I too am interested to see where this goes (with the caveat I might try it myself one day ).

No biggy... like I said its just not for me and that's ok. I am curious where you all will go with this and will follow the thread AND hope that you guys can come up with something .

Keep up the great work Wolfe. Hope for an update soon- life can be hectic and gets in the way a lot.

Curious if you're planning on just doing the classes from SAGA or if you've looked at maybe expanding a bit. Like Maybe Pilot or Bounty Hunter.