D&D 5E Optimizing a BladeSinger

NADRIGOL

Explorer
DM hasn't officially decided on a setting, so he was fine with dropping the elf-only requirement. I also maintained in my backstory that it is an elf-centric archetype in case it matters later.

I'm taking fighter at first level. I'll definitely switch straight into Wizard at level 2. I may pick up my second fighter level later; maybe after level 3 spells, maybe later.

Most of the group is new, but I am definitely not. I think Feats overwhelm most of the new players. They're still working on mechanics, so unless one of them expresses interest in a character motif that screams for a feat (dual wielder, off hand crossbow, gish, grappler), I probably wouldn't go beyond mentioning they exist. Multi-class as well, is very optimization focused, and most new players are probably better going pure until they have a solid grasp of the rules.
 

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TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
DM hasn't officially decided on a setting, so he was fine with dropping the elf-only requirement. I also maintained in my backstory that it is an elf-centric archetype in case it matters later.
In my humble opinion, you're missing a once in a lifetime chance to become the first legendary dwarven axesinger.
dwarf.gif
 

If I would do a bladesinger with standard array I'd take 16 Dex, 16 Int, 13 Con, 12 Wis 8 Str and 10 Cha.
My first ability score increase would be resilient constitution to only fail con saves during bladesong on a 1. At level 5 that means I will be hasted most of the time. At level 9 my proficiency bonus raises again and you never fail concentration. Only beef is that haste and extra attack and greenflame blade all don't play too well with each other. On the other hand you have a real choice between different attack options including using the good old bow or even two weapon fighting and attacks without elemental damage or magic tagged on.
My ability score increases would probably alter between Dex and Int after level 4 probably starting with dex.
If I really feel like mixing it up in melee, I'd probably multiclass fighter at some point and snatch TWF or duelling style depending on where I want to end. IF my goal is war magic, I surely would go duelling style.

If I feel really funny I might opt for a totally different bladesinging style:
Half elven college of sword bard bladesinger
 

krunchyfrogg

Explorer
Loved Zarzak's Fighter/Bladesinger idea. I'm running it in a campaign starting next week.

For anyone wondering how the attack build interacts with the new Cantrips I made an average damage table...

This assumes everything Zarzak outlined in his first post.

View attachment 71747
I really like this idea as well. I have one issue though: with a starting 10 wisdom score, and foregoing the wisdom save in favor of the constitution save, you're likely to fail many wisdom saving throws, which really is a killer.

If you just go wizard (bladesinger) mono-class, with 8/17/14/16/10/8, I think you're better off.

Level 4 can go with resilient:dexterity to bump dexterity to 18 and add that saving throw. At least the +2 constitution helps with those saving throws.

Level 8 bumps dexterity to 20

Level 12 and 16 bump intelligence to 20.

You can do whatever you want with level 19, assuming you play that far (and you likely won't).

This gets you a full spellcaster and is a whole lot of fun. This is just how I'd play it.

Alternately, you can go dual wielding and choose war caster at level 4. You could also choose to forego feats and start 8/17/15/16/8/8, bumping dexterity to 18 and constitution to 16 at level 4.

I think the point it that the bladesinger is a pretty cool archetype and there are a few different ways to maximize its effectiveness.
 

extralead

First Post
For some of my build designs, optimization can come from versatility as opposed to consistent DPS. This build optimizes Cantrips and some spell-class diversity. At Wizard-1/Cleric-1, this build can don Chain Mail armor with a shield and Longsword/Longbow, have a pet Familiar, but also cast Bless, Charm Person, Sleep, or Tasha's Hideous Laughter as actions, Feather Fall or Shield as reactions, and even Healing Word or Sanctuary as bonus actions. The build also has 7 Cantrips with only 300 experience points invested. This is all before adding Bladesinger.

Standard-Array (Option 1): High Elf; Str 13, Dex 12 (10+2), Con 12, Int 15 (14+1), Wis 15, Cha 8
Standard-Array (Option 2): High Elf; Str 13, Dex 12 (10+2), Con 12, Int 16 (15+1), Wis 14, Cha 8
Point-Buy (Option 1): High Elf; Str 13, Dex 10 (8+2), Con 12, Int 16 (15+1), Wis 15, Cha 8
Point-Buy (Option 2): High Elf; Str 13, Dex 11 (9+2), Con 13, Int 16 (15+1), Wis 14, Cha 8

In this build, the Wizard starts at Level 1 (L1), but switches to Life Cleric at L2 and then back to Wizard for Bladeslinger at L3 and thereafter. An alternative to this build would be to start as a Life Cleric at L1 and then proceed to choose Wizard at L2 and after; for the Simple weapon proficiencies and with the option to choose Wisdom-backed skills over Intelligence-backed ones.

The build can don Studded Leather with no shield for initial encounters. It only takes one action to don a shield when you have run out of Bladesongs, but it's almost-always worthwhile to don Chain mail-and shield when you run out of Bladesongs rather than complete a short rest, especially if you DM only allows short rests twice a day (or less) or places other restrictions on them.

Optionally, the Bladesinger could start adventuring with Chain mail-and Shield in order to save the two Bladesongs for miniboss and boss encounters, doffing the Chain mail-and Shield for the Studded Leather at the appropriate time. In some cases, I think this works well at lower levels until Intelligence is raised at L5 and L9, especially before L11 when the Song of Defense arcane-tradition feature is gained. Before Song of Defense, there really isn't a strong desire to activate Bladesong during combat, opting instead for its out-of combat effects (i.e., the ones that aren't buffed by Intelligence, such as the movement-speed increase, the advantage on Acrobatics checks, and the Extra Attack). Note that the Extra Attack applies even when Bladesong isn't active.

Heavy Armor and Shield can be worthwhile at higher levels as well as low ones, especially if the character adds in magical items that artificially raise Strength and Constitution. Not to mention the bonuses that magical armor and shields give.

While I only chose 1 level of Life Cleric, this build can still raise both Int and Wis to 20 even if 3-5 levels of Cleric are taken. With 3 levels of Cleric, Spiritual Weapon becomes available and combines nicely with a high-level Spell Slot. In my version of the build, I'd probably opt to raise Constitution to at least 16 and only raise Wisdom as high as 16 (or even leave it at 14 if one of the Option 2s are chosen above). Usually there will be no need to raise Strength above 14, except maybe to 15 if Plate is desired (and no strength-raising magical items are ever attuned) -- although if the character relies on consistent, strong melee attacks then I would likely prefer to raise Dexterity, but I think this makes the build too-MAD.
 

EnWorld#0000

Villager
When a Bladesinger casts Polymorph on themselves after having activated Bladesong (+INT AC, +INT to concentrations saves) and then takes the form of a Giant Ape or a Tyrannosaurus Rex... does the Bladesong bonus remain as activated, or does it lower to the new value, which would be negative (animal level intelligence)? Sorry if this is too necro -this is about optimization, and this thread is focused perfectly.

The main benefit is the former INT bonus to the current Concentration save -the AC bonus won't help the wizard as much when it's the new hit points that matter so much.
 
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Zene

First Post
At level 9 my proficiency bonus raises again and you never fail concentration.

Concentration check DCs are 10 or half the damage taken, whichever is higher. How are you never failing them? My apologies if I missed something, but I'm not seeing how that's possible.

... does the Bladesong bonus remain as activated, or does it lower to the new value, which would be negative (animal level intelligence)?

The ability description says it's a minimum bonus of 1; can never go negative.
 

Concentration check DCs are 10 or half the damage taken, whichever is higher. How are you never failing them? My apologies if I missed something, but I'm not seeing how that's possible.



The ability description says it's a minimum bonus of 1; can never go negative.
I meant the DC 10 ones. Of course massive damage can get you out. You could use stoneskin to raise the damage bar to 40. And at level 10 you get the ability to use spell slots to reduce damage significantly. Never is too much... but it gets quite unlikely.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using EN World mobile app
 

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