Originally posted by Haldrik:
Plan to update initial posts based on recent posts, by the end of October 2012
Help figure out the best powers! What power do you think is the best? Sort the powers below, from the worst (at the top) to best (at the bottom), according to the one you would *want* more than the others above it.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
What is the most powerful psionic power?
1-Point Powers
1st-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Hammer
Float
Astral Traveler
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive
Know Direction and Location
Detect Teleportation
Distract
Empathy
Telempathic Projection
Conceal Thoughts
Catfall
My Light
Sense Link
Attraction
Destiny Dissonance
Demoralize
Deceleration
Daze, Psionic
Disable
Déjà Vu
Burst
Melee Suicide — Least Useful for Psion, Not Bad for Wilder, Good for PsyWar and Psicrystal
(Doesn't Augment Well)
Bite of the Wolf
Expansion
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Grip of Iron
Claws of the Beast
Call Weaponry
Metaphysical Weapon
Metaphysical Claw
Stomp
Prevenom
Prevenom Weapon
Dissipating Touch
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Compression
Call to Mind
Chameleon
Synesthete
Control Object
Mindlink
Skate
Precognition
Control Light
Grease, Psionic
Create Sound
Far Hand
Minor Creation, Psionic
Matter Agitation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Force Screen
Detect Psionics
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Bolt
Empty Mind
Thicken Skin
Control Flames
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
Good (Augments Well)
Inertial Armor
Ecto Protection
Charm, Psionic
Mind Thrust
Very Good (Augments Well)
Energy Ray
Crystal Shard
Vigor
Astral Construct
3-Point Powers
2nd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive, Mass
Object Reading
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Sense Link, Forced
Inflict Pain
Aversion
Tongues, Psionic
Bestow Power
Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions
Brain Lock
Elfsight (Spot and Search)
Repair Damage, Psionic
Empathic Transfer
Sustenance
Id Insinuation
Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Painful Strike
Prowess
Mental Disruption
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Dissolving Touch
Strength of My Enemy
Energy Push
Dissolving Weapon
Psionic Lion’s Charge
Swarm of Crystals
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Scent, Psionic
Detect Hostile Intent
Knock, Psionic
Control Air
Concealing Amorpha
Wall Walker
Levitate, Psionic
Share Pain
Clairvoyant Sense
Cloud Mind
Dimension Swap
Identify, Psionic
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Psionic Repair Damage
Recall Agony
Thought Shield
Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Read Thoughts
Good (Augments Well)
Biofeedback
Suggestion, Psionic
Very Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Control Sound
Very Good (Augments Well)
Concussion Blast (Psionic Magic Missile)
Energy Missile
Ego Whip
Energy Adaptation, Specified
Energy Stun
Animal Affinity
5-Point Powers
3rd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Mind Trap
Ubiquitous Vision
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Darkvision, Psionic
Crisis of Breath
Share Pain, Forced
Energy Retort
Less Useful (Augments Well)
Energy Burst
Body Ajustment
Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Graft Weapon
Duodimensional Claw
Keen Edge, Psionic
Claws of the Vampire
Vampiric Blade
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Empathic Transfer, Hostile
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Danger Sense
Eradicate Invisibility
Dismiss Ectoplasm
Exhalation of the Black Dragon
Escape Detection
Mental Barrier
Concealing Amorpha, Greater
False Sensory Input
Energy Wall
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Body Purification
Telekinetic Thrust
Telekinetic Force
Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Solicit Psicrystal
Ectoplasmic Form
Touchsight
Hustle
Fate Link
Astral Caravan
Dimension Slide
Good (Augments Well)
Energy Bolt
Psionic Blast
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Very Good (Augments Well)
Time Hop
Dispel Psionics
Energy Cone
7-Point Powers
4th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Quintessence
Less Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Personality Parasite
Power Leech
Correspond
Trace Teleport
Anchored Navigation
Melee Suicide (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Immovability
Claw of Energy
Weapon of Energy
Truevenom
Truevenom Weapon
Psychic Vampire
Not Bad (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Detect Remote Viewing
Mindlink, Thieving
Aura Sight
Modify Memory, Psionic
Energy Adaptation
Dimensional Anchor, Psionic
Divination, Psionic
Inertial Barrier
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Mindwipe
Dominate, Psionic
Empathic Feedback
Intellect Fortress
Telekinetic Maneuver
Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Steadfast Perception
Freedom of Movement, Psionic
Remote Viewing
Fabricate, Psionic
Dismissal, Psionic
Death Urge
Wall of Ectoplasm
Dimension Door, Psionic
Fly, Psionic
Very Good (Augments Well)
Control Body
Energy Ball
Very Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Schism
Metamorphosis
Broken
(Doesn’t Augment Well)
Psychic Reformation
Take it every time to swap out your abilities including itself.
9-Point Powers
5th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Shatter Mind Blank
Less Useful
Leech Field
Metaconcert
Catapsi
Ectoplasmic Shambler
Incarnate
Restore Extremity
Melee Suicide
Psychofeedback
Not Bad
Baleful Teleport (A)
Psychic Crush
Fiery Discorporation
Good
Adapt Body
Second Chance
Hail of Crystals
Energy Current (A)
Plane Shift, Psionic
Mind Probe
Major Creation, PsionicGood
Tower of Iron Will (A)
Teleport, Psionic
Very Good
Clairtangent Hand (A)
Teleport Trigger
Psionic Revivify
True Seeing, Psionic
Power Resistance
11-Point Powers
6th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Suspend Life
Fuse Flesh
Remote View Trap
Overland Flight, Psionic
Aura Alteration
Co-Opt Concentration
Cloud Mind, Mass
Less Useful
Mind Switch
Banishment, Psionic
Melee Suicide
Form of Doom
Dispelling Buffer
Not Bad
Breath of the Black Dragon
Precognition, Greater
Disintegrate, Psionic
Good
Restoration, Psionic
Contingency, Psionic
Very Good
Retrieve
Crystalize
Null Psionics Field
Fabricate, Greater Psionic
Temporal Acceleration
13-Point Powers
7th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful - not worth a 7th-level power
Phase Door, Psionic
Ethereal Jaunt, Psionic
Less Useful
Divert Teleport
Energy Conversion
Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass
Crisis of Life
Insanity
Melee Suicide
Sequester, Psionic
Ultrablast
Not Bad
Decerebrate
Good
Reddopsi
Dream Travel
Energy Wave
Fate of One
Very Good
Fission
Moment of Prescience, Psionic
15-Point Powers
8th-level Psionic Powers from the worst ... to the best!
Least Useful
Time Hop, Mass
Less Useful
Fusion
Not Bad
Matter Manipulation
Mind Seed
Iron Body, Psionic
Good
Hypercognition
Shadow Body
Recall Death
True Metabolism
Teleport, Psionic, Greater
Very Good
Telekinetic Sphere, Psionic
Mind Blank, Psionic
Astral Seed
Bend Reality
17-Point Powers
9th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Etherealness, Psionic
Apopsi
Assimilate
Less Useful
Timeless Body
Mind Switch, True
Not Bad
Affinity Field
Teleportation Circle, Psionic
Time Regression
Good
True Creation
Tornado Blast
Psychic Chirurgery
Microcosm
Very Good
Genesis
Metafaculty
Metamorphosis, Greater
Reality Revision
Each and every power is better than the one above it. If you see one that you feel is out of order, post it and say which two powers it should go between.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
POWER DC
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against any psionic power is equal to 11 + the total power points with augmentation + the prime ability modifier of the manifester class.
POWER FIXES
Empathic Transfer
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/Wilder sychic Warrior b]Display:[/b] Auditory and material
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range:
Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels)
Target:
One willing creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Power Points:
ou heal another creature’s wounds, transferring some of its damage to yourself. When you manifest this power, you can heal as much as 2d10 points of damage. The target regains a number of hit points equal to the dice result, and you lose hit points equal to half of that amount. (This loss can bring you to 0 or fewer hit points.)
Powers and abilities you may have such as damage reduction and regeneration do not lessen or change this damage, since you are taking the target’s pain into yourself in an empathic manner. The damage transferred by this power has no type, so even if you have immunity to the type of damage the target originally took, the transfer occurs normally and deals hit point damage to you. Temporary hit points, such as from Vigor, obsorb the damage before your hit points do.
Alternatively, you can use this power to absorb one poison or one disease afflicting the target creature into yourself. When you absorb a poison or disease, you do not take any of the damage previously dealt to the target by the affliction, but you do assume the burden of making the secondary and/or continuing Fortitude saves to combat the affliction.
Finally, you can use this power to transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per manifester level from the target to yourself.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, you can heal an additional 2d10 points of damage (to a maximum of 10d10 points per manifestation).
Flight
(Replaces Overland Flight, provides augmentation)
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/Wilder 5, Psychic Warrior 5
Display: Material, Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: No
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 9
From your back, you sprout wings that meld thru clothes and armor. Your wings unleash your inner psyche, expressing the form that you desire. You take up space as if one size larger but don't incur the size modifier. You fly at a speed of 20 feet. Encumberance reduces the speed by half. Your maneuverability is average, ascending at half speed and descending at double. Your move action must maintain a minimum forward speed of at least half, or stall falling 150 feet before making a successful Dexterity check at DC 20 to recover. If failed, check after each fall of 300 feet.
Augment: For each additional power point you spend, your base fly speed increases by 20 feet.
Table: Flight Costs
PPSpeedHour*Hour (Hustle)Day<br />9 20 feet 2 miles 4 miles16 miles<br />10 40 feet 4 miles 8 miles32 miles<br />11 60 feet 6 miles12 miles48 miles<br />12 80 feet 9 miles18 miles72 miles<br />13100 feet11 miles22 miles88 miles<br />14120 feet13 miles26 miles104 miles<br />15140 feet15 miles30 miles120 miles<br />16160 feet18 miles36 miles144 miles<br />17180 feet20 miles40 miles160 miles<br />18200 feet22 miles44 miles176 miles<br />19220 feet25 miles50 miles200 miles<br />20240 feet27 miles54 miles216 miles<br /><br />* Calculations in this table are more precise and may override calculations found in other tables.
Fly, Psionic
See Levity.
Force Screen
Psychokinesis [Force]
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 /level
Power Points: 1
You create an invisible mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. The force screen provides a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class (which applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since the force screen is a force effect). Since it hovers in front of you, the effect has no armor check penalty associated with it.
Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend, the shield bonus to Armor Class improves by 1.
Haldrik’s Liferay (Zoauge )
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 1, Wilder 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power points: 1
You connect astrally with the Positive Plane and channel its life-giving energy through your hand. On a successful hit, the ray of light heals a living creature 1d6 points. Oppositely it “harms” an undead creature or an outsider from the Negative Plane.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, the ray’s healing increases by 1d6 points.
Haldrik’s Deathray (Thanatauge )
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2, Wilder 2
Display: Visual
Manifesting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power points: 3
You connect astrally with the Negative Plane and channel its death-dealing energy through your hand. On a successful hit, the ray of darkness harms a living creature 3d6 points. Oppositely it “heals” an undead creature or an outsider from the Negative Plane.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, the ray’s harming increases by 1d6 points.
Levity
(Replaces Fly, Psionic and Overland Flight, Psionic, provides augmentation)
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: No
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 3
By the force of your mind, you fly with perfect maneuverability at a base speed of 10. When the duration ends, or is dismissed, suppressed or dispelled, your levity ends gradually, and you can descend safely for a distance equal to your total power point expenditure
Originally posted by Haldrik:
While balancing Flight, I made this chart to handle various speeds. I'm posting it here as a reference for others who need it.
Table: Speed Conversions
Calculations in this table are more precise and may override calculations found in other tables.
SpeedHourHour HustleDay<br /> 10 feet 1.14 1 mile 2 miles 8 miles<br /> 15 feet 1.70 1 mile 2 miles 8 miles<br /> 20 feet 2.27 2 miles 4 miles 16 miles<br /> 30 feet 3.41 3 miles 6 miles 24 miles<br /> 40 feet 4.55 4 miles 8 miles 32 miles<br /> 45 feet 5.11 5 miles10 miles 40 miles<br /> 50 feet 5.68 5 miles10 miles 40 miles<br /> 60 feet 6.82 6 miles12 miles 48 miles<br /> 70 feet 7.95 7 miles14 miles 56 miles<br /> 80 feet 9.09 9 miles18 miles 72 miles<br /> 90 feet10.2310 miles20 miles 80 miles<br />100 feet11.3611 miles22 miles 88 miles<br />110 feet12.5012 miles24 miles 96 miles<br />120 feet13.6413 miles26 miles104 miles<br />130 feet14.7714 miles28 miles112 miles<br />140 feet15.9115 miles30 miles120 miles<br />150 feet17.0517 miles34 miles136 miles<br />160 feet18.1818 miles36 miles144 miles<br />170 feet19.3219 miles38 miles152 miles<br />180 feet20.4520 miles40 miles160 miles<br />190 feet21.5921 miles42 miles168 miles<br />200 feet22.7222 miles44 miles176 miles<br />210 feet23.8623 miles46 miles184 miles<br />220 feet25.0025 miles50 miles200 miles<br />230 feet26.1426 miles52 miles208 miles<br />240 feet27.2727 miles54 miles216 miles<br />250 feet28.4128 miles56 miles224 miles<br />260 feet29.4529 miles58 miles232 miles<br />270 feet30.6830 miles60 miles240 miles<br />280 feet31.8231 miles62 miles248 miles<br />290 feet32.9532 miles64 miles256 miles<br />300 feet34.0934 miles68 miles272 miles<br />310 feet35.2335 miles70 miles280 miles<br />320 feet36.3636 miles72 miles288 miles
Conversion Values
1 mile = 5280 feet
1 mile per hour = 22/15 feet-per-second = 88 feet-per-minute = 8.8 feet–per–round (6 seconds)
Therefore: Speed 8.8 feet = 1 mile-per-hour
Originally posted by Haldrik:
I need your suggestions to help figure out which power is better than which!
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Altho Inertial Armor is simply a solid 1st level power and altho its effect is easily replaced by mundane, mithral or magical armors, its long duration lasting for hours makes it pretty good. I promoted Inertial Armor to Rank 2.
I demoted Far Hand to Rank 0. I love this power for flavor, but it's not powerful enough to choose over the 1st-level must-haves.
Stomp (Psy 1) demotes to Rank 0, it's good but not as good as Energy Ray.
Hammer is certainly Rank 0. Any power that requires a low hp Psion to melee touch an opponent is inherently worthless.
I'm uncertain about increasing Energy Ray to Rank 2. 1 pp for a onetime 1d6 damage, actually sucks. At lowest levels, this power is worse than a bow and deserves Rank 0. On the other hand, Energy Ray augments well and is among the must haves, which seems to deserve a somewhat higher rank.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
how does augmentation fit into your ranking? After all, a first level power, augmented to 20th level ight be far more usefull than the equivalent 20th level power (especially as there are some low level, augmentable powers that don't have saving throws)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
For now, I treat each power as having the minimum pp without augmentation because this is what the power is when you first get it, as soon as possible while you're still at the lowest level to take it.
If it doesn't augment at all it's probably worth a lesser rank.
If it augments decently (like Thicken Skin) it's probably worth the rank of its power level.
If it augments awesomely (like Energy Ray, Energy Burst) it's probably worth a higher rank.
Originally posted by bacris:
IMO - Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge are two of the most useful PsyWar powers. Hustle for refocus / extra move + full attack, Psionic Lion's Charge for a full attack + charge. Both are also swift actions and relatively low pp cost for the limited pool of the PsyWar. I'd probably rank those one higher, as most PsyWar's / Feat Intense Psions will be using at least one of them.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Bacris,
Cool. I moved both Hustle and Lion's Charge to Rank 4. Both are slightly better than most 2nd level powers that generally have Rank 3.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Unless there was something in the errata then Moment of Prescience, Psionic should probably be rank 1 or so.
Comparing with true strike (which I know is not psionic, but still) true strike wins.
It is nice to have a bonus now and then, but a 7th level power that grants a single bonus to something that must be used within 1 round/level? no thanks.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I'm wondering, why is Force Screen ranked below Thicken Skin? For an Egoist, who is unproficient in shields, the +4 AC provided by Force Screen is superior to the +1 AC provided by Thicken Skin. Considering that you're an Egoist, by the time you're high level enough to augment Thicken Skin to give you about +4 AC, then you might as well be Metamorphosising into something with a high Natural Armor.
Besides, Force Screen is worth more for the power points spent.
Originally posted by cycloneranger:
I would move Astral Construct up several ranks. It is powerful through the mid levels, and extremely versatile. You can tailor your constructs to do different things, such as fight any type of foe, or even move or carry things. (Don't know Psionic Fly? Make a construct that can fly, and have it carry you.)
Even if you do not include augmentation in the basic ranks, you should move up astral construct, in my opinion, simply because it is so versatile. There is even a whole prestige class based around this one power.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion, I'll look at Moment of Prescience more carefully. From Rank 13 (7th level) to Rank 1 (1st level) seems drastic, but it is deserved sometimes.
Chasmodai, I mentioned above why Force Screen is near worthless. To reiterate:
Force Screen only lasts for *minutes* (as opposed to Thicken Skin that lasts for decaminutes or Inertial Armor that lasts for *hours* (!) ).
The benefit of Force Screen is easily replaced by a *real* shield. A masterwork buckler doesn't require any proficiency, nor does any shield made of darkwood or mithral. A shield does not interfere with psionics. The only benefit that the Shield Proficiency gives you is to remove the Armor Check Penalty, but none of the above shields have an Armor Check Penalty so you don't need the Proficiency.
Cyclone Ranger, Is Astral Construct more in the category of Energy Ray? Excellent if you augment it, but mediocre if you don't?
Originally posted by bacris:
1 PP Astral Constructs are still great even at high levels for trap search grunts, decoys, etc...
In all honesty, Astral Construct, used properly, can be extremely useful simply due to the nature of the power. I'd rank it at least 3.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Astral Construct elevates to Rank 3.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
I know Detect Psionics/Magic is a cantrip on the Wizard spell list, but it's so useful it seems to deserve being a 1st level power/spell (thus Rank 1). What do you guys think?
The Know Direction and Location is handy but definitely cantrip material: Rank 0.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
However, it only lasts for one round per level and until one is pretty high level the bonus is marginal most of the time.
Comparing with true strike the power is pretty weak.
Given the choice between moment as a first level power and most other first level powers out there I'd go with the other a good portion of the time. If it was low level at least one could quicken it or something to make it useful as a very temporary buff.
Still, +4 to ac for a very long time or +level to ac once if it is up during the incredibly short duration? hmm..
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Force Screen also blocks incorporeal touch attacks. Which is something that a buckler or any other mundane shield cannot do. And no shield gives you +4 AC (enchanting a buckler to give you +4 costs 9000gp, while Force Screen is, in a monetary sense, free).
I'd put it in rank 1, for fairness' sake. Thicken Skin is a good power if you're going dungeoneering, Force Screen is if you're caught off guard (ambushed in the middle of the night with only 1/4 your pp left).
Originally posted by elecwolf:
Ugh. I'd rather learn fly and pick up my spear and fight then.
If the power is useful, let the first level guy use it.
One AC1 has about a 50/50 chance of beating a kobold...
If I have to 3rd level before I get it, I'll fight the kobold.
Originally posted by bacris:
no, it's ranked as equal to a 3 pp power at base cost, we're not changing power levels/cost/entries, only their ranking compared to other powers.
Originally posted by blainetog:
Ugg...
Assuming "Lowest PP possible" is very very awkward. I suggest you assume each power is augmented to the fullest extent possible. That gives us a much better idea of how powerful each power is vs. how powerful it is supposed to be; 3 PP is supposed to give you the same net power regardless of power manifested.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
It's a good idea to compare powers by their maximum augmentation. Still, this has its own problems.
For example, how would you rank the following damage powers assuming all can reach a maximum of 20 pp and thus are somewhere around Rank 20? How about?
Rank 21 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 23 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 25 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 27 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Rank 29 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 35 = Energy Missile (both target and objects in possession) (8)
Originally posted by blainetog:
IMO, using numbers that high is confusing. It makes sense if we're basing it on lowest PP, but not highest. The system might work best as some sort of raio: +/- the "balanced" level. Mabye +/- 5 (0=balanced).
Anyway. To answer your question:
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Does the following order - from least powerful to most powerful - look right?
Rank 20 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 21 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 23 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 24 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 26 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 27 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion,
I did an in depth analysis of Moment of Prescience, and unfortuantely lost it because of a server error when sending it.
In brief, True Strike as a spell should probably be higher than 1st level, and as a power may be broken, since a Psion could cast it hundreds of times a day. So, it's probably not safe to compare Moment of Prescience to True Strike.
Better comparisons to Moment of Prescience (Seer 7) are Precognition (Seer 1) and Greater Precognition (Seer 6).
If 1 pp = a +1.5 onetime bonus on any roll, then:
1 pp = 1st level power = Precognition +2 (+1.5) onetime bonus
3 pp = 2nd level power = Greater Precognition +4 (+4.5) onetime bonus
9 pp = 5th level power = Moment of Prescience +13 (+13.5) onetime bonus
13 pp = 7th level power = Moment of Prescience +20 (+19.5) onetime bonus
The above values, where 1 pp = a +1.5 onetime bonus, follow the official values for Moment of Prescience closely. It's impossible that Greater Precognition is worth a 6th level power. It works better as a 2nd level power and is equivalent, give-or-take, with the Elan's Resistance ability which gives a +4 bonus on any save. Resistance can be manifested immediately unlike Greater Precognition, making the former's immediacy worth about as much as the latter's flexibility regarding any roll, not just saves. Therefore, setting Greater Precognition as a 2nd level power seems balanced.
With the above values in mind, Moment of Prescience would start at about a 5th level power.
Supposing Moment of Prescience could be manifested immediately, its roughly +15 bonus would virtually guarantee a successful roll that would virtually grant invulnerability for one round, like the 9th level powers Time Regression and Timeless Body. Supposing that Moment of Prescience could be augmented with 6 or 8 pp to manifest as an immediate action, that would make it roughly worth 17 pp in the same camp as the 9th level powers. So, 1 pp = +1.5 bonus seems balanced at high levels as well as low levels.
If Time Regression and Timeless Body are worth 9th level powers, then it seems Moment of Prescience is worth a 5th level power.
Thoughts? Would any of you choose Moment of Prescience over other 5th level powers (Rank 9)?
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion compares Moment of Prescience to the 1st-level spell True Strike. A good point. True Strike gives a +20 bonus on the next attack. In this sense it's better than Moment of Prescience, which only gives a +level bonus.
At first, I thought True Strike might not be balanced as a psionic power because it could be cast so many times per day. I take this back. In fact now I wonder if True Strike might be *more balanced* as a psionic power!
In order to manifest True Strike, you would have to waste a standard action and attack on the next round. What really makes the True Strike spell broken is a Quickened True Strike plus an attack in the same round. However, when a Psion would Quicken a True Strike power, the Psionic Focus must be expended, making True Strike happen once per battle unless battle time was wasted or unless certain feats were taken (instead of other feats).
Because the target of True Strike is "You", even Schism can't attack in the same round, since the Schismed mind is someother "You", not "You"! True Strike seems balanced as a 1st-level power.
So, if True Strike balances as a 1st-level power, how can Moment of Prescience be a 7th-level power?
Moment of Prescience Versus Resistance
True Strike only applies to attack, however look at the Elan's Resistance ability that gives a +4 bonus on *any* save as an *immediate* action. For 1 pp! Because Moment of Prescience must be cast ahead of time and only lasts a few rounds, I would *rather* have the Elan's Resistance ability (which can be used after the fact when you know you need it) than Moment of Prescience. I think Resistance is *more* powerful than Moment of Prescience with regard to a save bonus.
And for sure, Resistance isn't too powerful. The 1st-level Elan has to burn a pp for the +4 save, whereas a 1st-level Paladin can get all +4 saves for free because of Divine Grace.
If Resistance costs 1 pp, that suggests the ability is equivalent to a 1st-level power. (Perhaps worth a bit more, but not much more.)
How Much Is Moment of Prescience Worth?
Moment of Prescience does have advantages: it is more versatile than either True Strike or Resistance because it applies to: AC or save or attack or skill check or stat check or almost any d20 check. Moment of Prescience should be a bit higher than a 1st level power, but not much more.
1 pp = a onetime +2 bonus on any d20 check
1 pp = really a 1st level power = Precognition +2
2 pp = really a 1st level power = Greater Precognition +4
7 pp = 4th level power = Moment of Prescience +13
Does 4th-level sound good for Moment of Prescience (since it's valuable because of its many uses)? I'm particularly asking you, Scion. Can you see yourself picking Moment of Prescience as a 4th-level power? Should it be lower?
I'm interested in what the others of you think too for the sake of a consensus.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
True strike is pretty well fine as a first level spell. It takes a standard action and is somewhat useful. It not only grants a +20 bonus but it also ignores miss chance. Insight bonus as well.
Moment of prescience is +1/level insight bonus. It lasts for 1 round/level or until discharged (1 use) for a single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw, or a one time bonus to AC.
So, it has more general uses than true strike and lasts longer but its bonus is generally much lower.
If it was a first level power then pretty much no one would ever get it, it just doesnt do anything.
At higher levels it is like true strike, it must be quicked to be useful. Manifesting it as normal in combat takes out a round where something else much more useful could've been done.
Psions are typically much worse off at putting up quickened powers.
Lets do another comparison though.
SRD:
Precognition
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events—what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Now, I know that this is seer only but this one actually has a useful duration along with giving that +2 which may be applied 'after' you find out that the roll failed.
Comparing to moment of prescience the moment can get a bigger bonus later on, but it has a much reduced duration and can only be applied beforehand.
The extra, higher bonus is nice at later levels but even then which is 'better'? Depends I suppose. But they each have their advantages.
If nothing else it could be a first level power with an augmentation. Say that it starts off +2 and for every extra pp you put into it the bonus increases by +4, but the bonus cannot be higher than your manifestor level (min +2).
Personally, I would also prefer another augmentation to make the duration more useful. Like say, +2 pp to increase the duration to 10min/level.
And why not, +8 pp to manifest as an immediate action
Sounds like a decent choice for a first level power. Probably too nice when compared with precognition but only because precognition has no augmentation which it probably should. So maybe only the first two augmentations are needed for this first level power.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Precognition
(Greater Precognition and Moment of Prescience)
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events—what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, an opposed ability check, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Augment: You can modify this power in one or both of the following ways.
For every additional power point you spend, your insight bonus increases by +2 up to a total not exceeding your manifester level.
If you spend an additional 8 power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.
We need to think thru the augmentation carefully. Applying Precog as an immediate action is extremely powerful because you can spend exactly what you need to "fix" a failed d20 roll.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Fate of one costs 13 pp. While I think this is a good power I am not sure if it costs too much for what it does.
Still, assuming it is just right that should be a decent baseline. Hence why I said to add +8. I feel that a reroll is stronger than a +2 most of the time.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion, I agree that Precognition with an augment of +8 pp for an immediate action is probably balanced.
My main concern is how much the insight bonus should be.
If it can be manifested as an immediate action, then +2 (+1/pp) could be reasonable, like the Elan's Resiliance. On the other hand, since it's a onetime bonus, even your +2 (+4/pp) could be reasonable, more like True Strike.
It's tricky. Precog, Moment, True Strike, Resiliance, and Resistance all have slightly different approaches. It's tricky to know which mechanic to choose when allowing an upto +20 bonus that can also be an immediate action on any kind of d20 roll.
Assuming the immediate action is possible, you seem to be ok with the +2 (+2/pp) bonus?
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Immediate Precognition costs 9 pp for a +2 bonus.
Immediate Precognition costs 13 pp for a +10 bonus (with an augment of +2 bonus/pp).
A reroll is not as good as +10 bonus.
What if the bonus is base +2, with augment +1/pp? Then 13 pp gets you an +6 bonus. This is closer to the value of a reroll.
(Of course, the question remains. Is a reroll worth a 7th level power costing 13 pp?)
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Personaly, I see fate of one as more of a 4th level power. It has a very nice little effect, but it has a pretty hefty cost associated with it.
Going by that it would be 7pp.
Precognition base would be 9pp for a +2 immediately which could then be used after the roll if needed.
More augmentation to make it better would cost more.
It could be manifested ahead of time but then there is the time requirement, which could mean that those pp are wasted.
Very tricky situation
If we go by fate of one being proper where it is then it becomes much more difficult.
I just checked the 3.0 version, it actually 'was' level 4 then. So it could be that my perceptions are more for that being ok where it was (now it is a seer only power and 3 levels higher, being level 4 and seer only is much more reasonable imo, or even level 3 for a seer and level 5 for everyone else).
Originally posted by Haldrik:
If they nerfed Fate of One from a 4th-level to a 7th-level power, then in all likelihood there was a problem with it being 4th. However, if they nerfed it at all, then in all likelihood they way overkilled the nerf (why is this such a recurring pattern, LOL!
).
Because it's Seer only, I can totally relax about making it a 5th-level Seer-only power. (6th-level for everybody else.) I bet you 5th- or 6th-level is what Fate of One is really worth. We can suppose Fate of One is worth about 9 pp.
I feel good about this anchor point.
Let's try figure out how much the augment for the bonus increase should cost.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Number crunching to approximate what things seem to be worth:
Minimum: 1 pp gets you a future +2 bonus
Medium: 2 pp gets you a future +4 bonus
Medium: 9 pp gets you an immediate +2 bonus
Medium: 10 pp gets you a future +20 bonus (i.e. a multi-use True Strike)
Medium: 18 pp gets you an immediate +20 bonus
Maximum: 20 pp gets you a future +40 bonus
Maximum: 20 pp gets you an immediate +24 bonus
Precognition
(Greater Precognition and Moment of Prescience)
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events — what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, an opposed ability check, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Augment: You can modify this power in one or both of the following ways.
For every additional power point you spend, your insight bonus increases by +2.
If you spend an additional 8 power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
I'm in the process of calculating each power separately. (Each has its own method of augmentation.) It's painfully boring and taking me forever. When I finish the list, I'll post it here. I'm going with the fullest augment possible for a 20th level Psion.
On a separate note,
The restricted discipline powers must be more powerful than nonrestricted powers of the same level. The Psion "specializes" in a discipline. The trade off is the loss of access to restricted powers from disciplines outside the specialization.
The restricted powers should be better, and it's important to gauge how much better they are compared to other powers.
Did I gather correctly from your previous post?
If Energy Ray is the standard, how do the others Energy Attacks compare?
Rank 18 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 20 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 21 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 22 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 23 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 24 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 26 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Are the distances between them about right?
Originally posted by salla:
Are we talking raw damage, or general usefulness? The present game I have a psion in is very short on combat and very big on investigation, interactions, and puzzle-solving. I've used Mind Probe, Object Reading, and Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions a *lot* more often than I've used Energy Ray.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Is it a consensus that the Seer and the Nomad are less effective in combat?
Consolidating and calibrating the Seer's Precognition, Greater Precognition, and Moment of Prescience into a single augmentable power makes it quite beefy. I guess the Seer needs a combat potent power anyway!
(With regard to the Nomad, I'm assigning to it the ability to channel the planar energies of the Positive and Negative Planes - ie, to heal and harm - to it. I guess the Nomad needs this too.)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
In fact, one thing you could do that would be really helpful, is take all the powers of a single power level and rank them from the ones you like the most to the ones you like the least.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Alright, for now I'm organizing this a bit differently. There's over 200 psionic powers, and listing them all seems intimidating. Instead, we'll just go thru one power level at a time. We won't add any numeric values (yet). We'll just sort all of the powers within each level, from the worst one (at the top) to the best one (at the bottom).
1st-level Powers
From the Worst to the Best ...
Very Substandard (Doesn't Augment Well)
Hammer
Float
Astral Traveler
Substandard (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive
Know Direction and Location
Detect Teleportation
Distract
Empathy
Telempathic Projection
Conceal Thoughts
Catfall
Burst
My Light
Sense Link
Call to Mind
Attraction
Destiny Dissonance
Demoralize
Deceleration
Daze, Psionic
Disable
Déjà Vu
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Skate
Chameleon
Synesthete
Mindlink
Force Screen
Compression
Precognition
Control Light
Grease, Psionic
Control Object
Create Sound
Far Hand
Minor Creation, Psionic
Bite of the Wolf
Matter Agitation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Expansion
Detect Psionics
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Dissipating Touch
Empty Mind
Thicken Skin
Grip of Iron
Claws of the Beast
Call Weaponry
Bolt
Metaphysical Weapon
Metaphysical Claw
Stomp
Prevenom
Prevenom Weapon
Control Flames
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
Good (Augments Well)
Ecto Protection
Inertial Armor
Charm, Psionic
Mind Thrust
Very Good (Augments Well)
Energy Ray
Crystal Shard
Vigor
Astral Construct
Each and every power is better than the power before it. If you think that one of the powers is out of order, post your comments. Name the power and tell which other powers it should go between.
Originally posted by calain80:
I would put Synesthete between Chameleon and Mindlink, cause it also protects against gaze attacks.
Plan to update initial posts based on recent posts, by the end of October 2012
Help figure out the best powers! What power do you think is the best? Sort the powers below, from the worst (at the top) to best (at the bottom), according to the one you would *want* more than the others above it.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
What is the most powerful psionic power?
1-Point Powers
1st-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Hammer
Float
Astral Traveler
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive
Know Direction and Location
Detect Teleportation
Distract
Empathy
Telempathic Projection
Conceal Thoughts
Catfall
My Light
Sense Link
Attraction
Destiny Dissonance
Demoralize
Deceleration
Daze, Psionic
Disable
Déjà Vu
Burst
Melee Suicide — Least Useful for Psion, Not Bad for Wilder, Good for PsyWar and Psicrystal
(Doesn't Augment Well)
Bite of the Wolf
Expansion
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Grip of Iron
Claws of the Beast
Call Weaponry
Metaphysical Weapon
Metaphysical Claw
Stomp
Prevenom
Prevenom Weapon
Dissipating Touch
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Compression
Call to Mind
Chameleon
Synesthete
Control Object
Mindlink
Skate
Precognition
Control Light
Grease, Psionic
Create Sound
Far Hand
Minor Creation, Psionic
Matter Agitation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Force Screen
Detect Psionics
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Bolt
Empty Mind
Thicken Skin
Control Flames
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
Good (Augments Well)
Inertial Armor
Ecto Protection
Charm, Psionic
Mind Thrust
Very Good (Augments Well)
Energy Ray
Crystal Shard
Vigor
Astral Construct
3-Point Powers
2nd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive, Mass
Object Reading
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Sense Link, Forced
Inflict Pain
Aversion
Tongues, Psionic
Bestow Power
Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions
Brain Lock
Elfsight (Spot and Search)
Repair Damage, Psionic
Empathic Transfer
Sustenance
Id Insinuation
Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Painful Strike
Prowess
Mental Disruption
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Dissolving Touch
Strength of My Enemy
Energy Push
Dissolving Weapon
Psionic Lion’s Charge
Swarm of Crystals
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Scent, Psionic
Detect Hostile Intent
Knock, Psionic
Control Air
Concealing Amorpha
Wall Walker
Levitate, Psionic
Share Pain
Clairvoyant Sense
Cloud Mind
Dimension Swap
Identify, Psionic
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Psionic Repair Damage
Recall Agony
Thought Shield
Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Read Thoughts
Good (Augments Well)
Biofeedback
Suggestion, Psionic
Very Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Control Sound
Very Good (Augments Well)
Concussion Blast (Psionic Magic Missile)
Energy Missile
Ego Whip
Energy Adaptation, Specified
Energy Stun
Animal Affinity
5-Point Powers
3rd-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Mind Trap
Ubiquitous Vision
Less Useful (Doesn't Augment Well)
Darkvision, Psionic
Crisis of Breath
Share Pain, Forced
Energy Retort
Less Useful (Augments Well)
Energy Burst
Body Ajustment
Melee Suicide (Doesn't Augment Well)
Graft Weapon
Duodimensional Claw
Keen Edge, Psionic
Claws of the Vampire
Vampiric Blade
Melee Suicide (Augments Well)
Empathic Transfer, Hostile
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Danger Sense
Eradicate Invisibility
Dismiss Ectoplasm
Exhalation of the Black Dragon
Escape Detection
Mental Barrier
Concealing Amorpha, Greater
False Sensory Input
Energy Wall
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Body Purification
Telekinetic Thrust
Telekinetic Force
Good (Doesn't Augment Well)
Solicit Psicrystal
Ectoplasmic Form
Touchsight
Hustle
Fate Link
Astral Caravan
Dimension Slide
Good (Augments Well)
Energy Bolt
Psionic Blast
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Very Good (Augments Well)
Time Hop
Dispel Psionics
Energy Cone
7-Point Powers
4th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Quintessence
Less Useful (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Personality Parasite
Power Leech
Correspond
Trace Teleport
Anchored Navigation
Melee Suicide (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Immovability
Claw of Energy
Weapon of Energy
Truevenom
Truevenom Weapon
Psychic Vampire
Not Bad (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Detect Remote Viewing
Mindlink, Thieving
Aura Sight
Modify Memory, Psionic
Energy Adaptation
Dimensional Anchor, Psionic
Divination, Psionic
Inertial Barrier
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Mindwipe
Dominate, Psionic
Empathic Feedback
Intellect Fortress
Telekinetic Maneuver
Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Steadfast Perception
Freedom of Movement, Psionic
Remote Viewing
Fabricate, Psionic
Dismissal, Psionic
Death Urge
Wall of Ectoplasm
Dimension Door, Psionic
Fly, Psionic
Very Good (Augments Well)
Control Body
Energy Ball
Very Good (Doesn’t Augment Well)
Schism
Metamorphosis
Broken
(Doesn’t Augment Well)Psychic Reformation
Take it every time to swap out your abilities including itself.
9-Point Powers
5th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Shatter Mind Blank
Less Useful
Leech Field
Metaconcert
Catapsi
Ectoplasmic Shambler
Incarnate
Restore Extremity
Melee Suicide
Psychofeedback
Not Bad
Baleful Teleport (A)
Psychic Crush
Fiery Discorporation
Good
Adapt Body
Second Chance
Hail of Crystals
Energy Current (A)
Plane Shift, Psionic
Mind Probe
Major Creation, PsionicGood
Tower of Iron Will (A)
Teleport, Psionic
Very Good
Clairtangent Hand (A)
Teleport Trigger
Psionic Revivify
True Seeing, Psionic
Power Resistance
11-Point Powers
6th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Suspend Life
Fuse Flesh
Remote View Trap
Overland Flight, Psionic
Aura Alteration
Co-Opt Concentration
Cloud Mind, Mass
Less Useful
Mind Switch
Banishment, Psionic
Melee Suicide
Form of Doom
Dispelling Buffer
Not Bad
Breath of the Black Dragon
Precognition, Greater
Disintegrate, Psionic
Good
Restoration, Psionic
Contingency, Psionic
Very Good
Retrieve
Crystalize
Null Psionics Field
Fabricate, Greater Psionic
Temporal Acceleration
13-Point Powers
7th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful - not worth a 7th-level power
Phase Door, Psionic
Ethereal Jaunt, Psionic
Less Useful
Divert Teleport
Energy Conversion
Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass
Crisis of Life
Insanity
Melee Suicide
Sequester, Psionic
Ultrablast
Not Bad
Decerebrate
Good
Reddopsi
Dream Travel
Energy Wave
Fate of One
Very Good
Fission
Moment of Prescience, Psionic
15-Point Powers
8th-level Psionic Powers from the worst ... to the best!
Least Useful
Time Hop, Mass
Less Useful
Fusion
Not Bad
Matter Manipulation
Mind Seed
Iron Body, Psionic
Good
Hypercognition
Shadow Body
Recall Death
True Metabolism
Teleport, Psionic, Greater
Very Good
Telekinetic Sphere, Psionic
Mind Blank, Psionic
Astral Seed
Bend Reality
17-Point Powers
9th-Level Powers from the Worst ... to the Best!
Least Useful
Etherealness, Psionic
Apopsi
Assimilate
Less Useful
Timeless Body
Mind Switch, True
Not Bad
Affinity Field
Teleportation Circle, Psionic
Time Regression
Good
True Creation
Tornado Blast
Psychic Chirurgery
Microcosm
Very Good
Genesis
Metafaculty
Metamorphosis, Greater
Reality Revision
Each and every power is better than the one above it. If you see one that you feel is out of order, post it and say which two powers it should go between.
What is the most powerful psionic damage power?
Damage Powers
From the Worst ... to the Best!
Less Useful
Energy Burst (3)
Ahhh, the fire is so friendly.
Melee Suicide — Least Useful for Psion, Not Bad for Wilder, Good for PsyWar and Psicrystal
Sure, go right up there and touch it. Good luck with that, by the way.
Dissipating Touch (1)
Assimilate (9)
Swarm of Crystals (2)
Mindaffecting — Good at Low Levels, Less Useful at Mid, Least Useful at High
A. If you have an awesome brain, your immune. B. If you don't have a brain, your immune. C. If either A or B doesn't apply, you're immune.
Recall Agony (2)
Mind Thrust (1)
Psychic Crush (5)
Ultrablast (7)
Crisis of Life (7)
Recall Death (8)
Not Bad
Exhalation of the Black Dragon (3)
Energy Bolt (3)
Baleful Teleport (5)
Energy Push (2)
Good
Hail of Crystals (5)
Concussion Blast (Psionic Magic Missile) (2)
Energy Cone (3)
Breath of the Black Dragon (6)
Energy Current (5)
Energy Ball (4)
Disintigrate, Psionic (6)
Energy Wave (7)
Tornado Blast (9)
Very Good
Energy Missile (not the good kind
High DC, massive damage ... on the foes, not the ally.
Energy Stun (2)
Hit 'em again and again and again. They can't do nothin'!
Energy Ray (1)
No save, massive damage.
Crystal Shard (1)
No save, massive damage, ... no psi resistance.
Each and every power is better than the power before it. If you think that one of the powers is out of order, post your comments. Name the power and tell which two powers it should go between.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
POWER DC
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against any psionic power is equal to 11 + the total power points with augmentation + the prime ability modifier of the manifester class.
POWER FIXES
Empathic Transfer
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/Wilder sychic Warrior b]Display:[/b] Auditory and material
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range:
Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels)
Target:
One willing creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Power Points:
ou heal another creature’s wounds, transferring some of its damage to yourself. When you manifest this power, you can heal as much as 2d10 points of damage. The target regains a number of hit points equal to the dice result, and you lose hit points equal to half of that amount. (This loss can bring you to 0 or fewer hit points.)
Powers and abilities you may have such as damage reduction and regeneration do not lessen or change this damage, since you are taking the target’s pain into yourself in an empathic manner. The damage transferred by this power has no type, so even if you have immunity to the type of damage the target originally took, the transfer occurs normally and deals hit point damage to you. Temporary hit points, such as from Vigor, obsorb the damage before your hit points do.
Alternatively, you can use this power to absorb one poison or one disease afflicting the target creature into yourself. When you absorb a poison or disease, you do not take any of the damage previously dealt to the target by the affliction, but you do assume the burden of making the secondary and/or continuing Fortitude saves to combat the affliction.
Finally, you can use this power to transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per manifester level from the target to yourself.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, you can heal an additional 2d10 points of damage (to a maximum of 10d10 points per manifestation).
Flight
(Replaces Overland Flight, provides augmentation)
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/Wilder 5, Psychic Warrior 5
Display: Material, Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: No
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 9
From your back, you sprout wings that meld thru clothes and armor. Your wings unleash your inner psyche, expressing the form that you desire. You take up space as if one size larger but don't incur the size modifier. You fly at a speed of 20 feet. Encumberance reduces the speed by half. Your maneuverability is average, ascending at half speed and descending at double. Your move action must maintain a minimum forward speed of at least half, or stall falling 150 feet before making a successful Dexterity check at DC 20 to recover. If failed, check after each fall of 300 feet.
Augment: For each additional power point you spend, your base fly speed increases by 20 feet.
Table: Flight Costs
PPSpeedHour*Hour (Hustle)Day<br />9 20 feet 2 miles 4 miles16 miles<br />10 40 feet 4 miles 8 miles32 miles<br />11 60 feet 6 miles12 miles48 miles<br />12 80 feet 9 miles18 miles72 miles<br />13100 feet11 miles22 miles88 miles<br />14120 feet13 miles26 miles104 miles<br />15140 feet15 miles30 miles120 miles<br />16160 feet18 miles36 miles144 miles<br />17180 feet20 miles40 miles160 miles<br />18200 feet22 miles44 miles176 miles<br />19220 feet25 miles50 miles200 miles<br />20240 feet27 miles54 miles216 miles<br /><br />* Calculations in this table are more precise and may override calculations found in other tables.
Fly, Psionic
See Levity.
Force Screen
Psychokinesis [Force]
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 /level
Power Points: 1
You create an invisible mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. The force screen provides a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class (which applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since the force screen is a force effect). Since it hovers in front of you, the effect has no armor check penalty associated with it.
Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend, the shield bonus to Armor Class improves by 1.
Haldrik’s Liferay (Zoauge )
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 1, Wilder 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power points: 1
You connect astrally with the Positive Plane and channel its life-giving energy through your hand. On a successful hit, the ray of light heals a living creature 1d6 points. Oppositely it “harms” an undead creature or an outsider from the Negative Plane.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, the ray’s healing increases by 1d6 points.
Haldrik’s Deathray (Thanatauge )
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2, Wilder 2
Display: Visual
Manifesting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power points: 3
You connect astrally with the Negative Plane and channel its death-dealing energy through your hand. On a successful hit, the ray of darkness harms a living creature 3d6 points. Oppositely it “heals” an undead creature or an outsider from the Negative Plane.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, the ray’s harming increases by 1d6 points.
Levity
(Replaces Fly, Psionic and Overland Flight, Psionic, provides augmentation)
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: No
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 3
By the force of your mind, you fly with perfect maneuverability at a base speed of 10. When the duration ends, or is dismissed, suppressed or dispelled, your levity ends gradually, and you can descend safely for a distance equal to your total power point expenditure
Originally posted by Haldrik:
While balancing Flight, I made this chart to handle various speeds. I'm posting it here as a reference for others who need it.
Table: Speed Conversions
Calculations in this table are more precise and may override calculations found in other tables.
SpeedHourHour HustleDay<br /> 10 feet 1.14 1 mile 2 miles 8 miles<br /> 15 feet 1.70 1 mile 2 miles 8 miles<br /> 20 feet 2.27 2 miles 4 miles 16 miles<br /> 30 feet 3.41 3 miles 6 miles 24 miles<br /> 40 feet 4.55 4 miles 8 miles 32 miles<br /> 45 feet 5.11 5 miles10 miles 40 miles<br /> 50 feet 5.68 5 miles10 miles 40 miles<br /> 60 feet 6.82 6 miles12 miles 48 miles<br /> 70 feet 7.95 7 miles14 miles 56 miles<br /> 80 feet 9.09 9 miles18 miles 72 miles<br /> 90 feet10.2310 miles20 miles 80 miles<br />100 feet11.3611 miles22 miles 88 miles<br />110 feet12.5012 miles24 miles 96 miles<br />120 feet13.6413 miles26 miles104 miles<br />130 feet14.7714 miles28 miles112 miles<br />140 feet15.9115 miles30 miles120 miles<br />150 feet17.0517 miles34 miles136 miles<br />160 feet18.1818 miles36 miles144 miles<br />170 feet19.3219 miles38 miles152 miles<br />180 feet20.4520 miles40 miles160 miles<br />190 feet21.5921 miles42 miles168 miles<br />200 feet22.7222 miles44 miles176 miles<br />210 feet23.8623 miles46 miles184 miles<br />220 feet25.0025 miles50 miles200 miles<br />230 feet26.1426 miles52 miles208 miles<br />240 feet27.2727 miles54 miles216 miles<br />250 feet28.4128 miles56 miles224 miles<br />260 feet29.4529 miles58 miles232 miles<br />270 feet30.6830 miles60 miles240 miles<br />280 feet31.8231 miles62 miles248 miles<br />290 feet32.9532 miles64 miles256 miles<br />300 feet34.0934 miles68 miles272 miles<br />310 feet35.2335 miles70 miles280 miles<br />320 feet36.3636 miles72 miles288 miles
Conversion Values
1 mile = 5280 feet
1 mile per hour = 22/15 feet-per-second = 88 feet-per-minute = 8.8 feet–per–round (6 seconds)
Therefore: Speed 8.8 feet = 1 mile-per-hour
Originally posted by Haldrik:
I need your suggestions to help figure out which power is better than which!
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Altho Inertial Armor is simply a solid 1st level power and altho its effect is easily replaced by mundane, mithral or magical armors, its long duration lasting for hours makes it pretty good. I promoted Inertial Armor to Rank 2.
I demoted Far Hand to Rank 0. I love this power for flavor, but it's not powerful enough to choose over the 1st-level must-haves.
Stomp (Psy 1) demotes to Rank 0, it's good but not as good as Energy Ray.
Hammer is certainly Rank 0. Any power that requires a low hp Psion to melee touch an opponent is inherently worthless.
I'm uncertain about increasing Energy Ray to Rank 2. 1 pp for a onetime 1d6 damage, actually sucks. At lowest levels, this power is worse than a bow and deserves Rank 0. On the other hand, Energy Ray augments well and is among the must haves, which seems to deserve a somewhat higher rank.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
how does augmentation fit into your ranking? After all, a first level power, augmented to 20th level ight be far more usefull than the equivalent 20th level power (especially as there are some low level, augmentable powers that don't have saving throws)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Augmentation complicates ranking.
For now, I treat each power as having the minimum pp without augmentation because this is what the power is when you first get it, as soon as possible while you're still at the lowest level to take it.
If it doesn't augment at all it's probably worth a lesser rank.
If it augments decently (like Thicken Skin) it's probably worth the rank of its power level.
If it augments awesomely (like Energy Ray, Energy Burst) it's probably worth a higher rank.
Originally posted by bacris:
IMO - Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge are two of the most useful PsyWar powers. Hustle for refocus / extra move + full attack, Psionic Lion's Charge for a full attack + charge. Both are also swift actions and relatively low pp cost for the limited pool of the PsyWar. I'd probably rank those one higher, as most PsyWar's / Feat Intense Psions will be using at least one of them.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Bacris,
Cool. I moved both Hustle and Lion's Charge to Rank 4. Both are slightly better than most 2nd level powers that generally have Rank 3.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Unless there was something in the errata then Moment of Prescience, Psionic should probably be rank 1 or so.
Comparing with true strike (which I know is not psionic, but still) true strike wins.
It is nice to have a bonus now and then, but a 7th level power that grants a single bonus to something that must be used within 1 round/level? no thanks.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I'm wondering, why is Force Screen ranked below Thicken Skin? For an Egoist, who is unproficient in shields, the +4 AC provided by Force Screen is superior to the +1 AC provided by Thicken Skin. Considering that you're an Egoist, by the time you're high level enough to augment Thicken Skin to give you about +4 AC, then you might as well be Metamorphosising into something with a high Natural Armor.
Besides, Force Screen is worth more for the power points spent.
Originally posted by cycloneranger:
I would move Astral Construct up several ranks. It is powerful through the mid levels, and extremely versatile. You can tailor your constructs to do different things, such as fight any type of foe, or even move or carry things. (Don't know Psionic Fly? Make a construct that can fly, and have it carry you.)
Even if you do not include augmentation in the basic ranks, you should move up astral construct, in my opinion, simply because it is so versatile. There is even a whole prestige class based around this one power.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion, I'll look at Moment of Prescience more carefully. From Rank 13 (7th level) to Rank 1 (1st level) seems drastic, but it is deserved sometimes.
Chasmodai, I mentioned above why Force Screen is near worthless. To reiterate:
Force Screen only lasts for *minutes* (as opposed to Thicken Skin that lasts for decaminutes or Inertial Armor that lasts for *hours* (!) ).
The benefit of Force Screen is easily replaced by a *real* shield. A masterwork buckler doesn't require any proficiency, nor does any shield made of darkwood or mithral. A shield does not interfere with psionics. The only benefit that the Shield Proficiency gives you is to remove the Armor Check Penalty, but none of the above shields have an Armor Check Penalty so you don't need the Proficiency.
It's a fair point. What ranks do you recommend for these powers?
Cyclone Ranger, Is Astral Construct more in the category of Energy Ray? Excellent if you augment it, but mediocre if you don't?
Originally posted by bacris:
1 PP Astral Constructs are still great even at high levels for trap search grunts, decoys, etc...
In all honesty, Astral Construct, used properly, can be extremely useful simply due to the nature of the power. I'd rank it at least 3.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Astral Construct elevates to Rank 3.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
I know Detect Psionics/Magic is a cantrip on the Wizard spell list, but it's so useful it seems to deserve being a 1st level power/spell (thus Rank 1). What do you guys think?
The Know Direction and Location is handy but definitely cantrip material: Rank 0.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
I know it is drastic, but check it out. The benefit is a plus equal to your manifestor level to a single roll, although there are several choices which is about the only redeeming feature.
However, it only lasts for one round per level and until one is pretty high level the bonus is marginal most of the time.
Comparing with true strike the power is pretty weak.
Given the choice between moment as a first level power and most other first level powers out there I'd go with the other a good portion of the time. If it was low level at least one could quicken it or something to make it useful as a very temporary buff.
Still, +4 to ac for a very long time or +level to ac once if it is up during the incredibly short duration? hmm..
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Force Screen also blocks incorporeal touch attacks. Which is something that a buckler or any other mundane shield cannot do. And no shield gives you +4 AC (enchanting a buckler to give you +4 costs 9000gp, while Force Screen is, in a monetary sense, free).
I'd put it in rank 1, for fairness' sake. Thicken Skin is a good power if you're going dungeoneering, Force Screen is if you're caught off guard (ambushed in the middle of the night with only 1/4 your pp left
).Originally posted by elecwolf:
That would mean 3rd level by the time you get it!??!
Ugh. I'd rather learn fly and pick up my spear and fight then.
If the power is useful, let the first level guy use it.
One AC1 has about a 50/50 chance of beating a kobold...
If I have to 3rd level before I get it, I'll fight the kobold.
Originally posted by bacris:
no, it's ranked as equal to a 3 pp power at base cost, we're not changing power levels/cost/entries, only their ranking compared to other powers.
Originally posted by blainetog:
Ugg...
Assuming "Lowest PP possible" is very very awkward. I suggest you assume each power is augmented to the fullest extent possible. That gives us a much better idea of how powerful each power is vs. how powerful it is supposed to be; 3 PP is supposed to give you the same net power regardless of power manifested.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Right, this is similar to what I did for the *What Is the Most Powerful Damage Spell* thread. It compared the maximum scaling of damage that each spell could do.
It's a good idea to compare powers by their maximum augmentation. Still, this has its own problems.
For example, how would you rank the following damage powers assuming all can reach a maximum of 20 pp and thus are somewhere around Rank 20? How about?
Rank 21 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 23 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 25 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 27 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Rank 29 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 35 = Energy Missile (both target and objects in possession) (8)
Originally posted by blainetog:
IMO, using numbers that high is confusing. It makes sense if we're basing it on lowest PP, but not highest. The system might work best as some sort of raio: +/- the "balanced" level. Mabye +/- 5 (0=balanced).
Anyway. To answer your question:
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Don't worry about who can use it. Just what it does.
Does the following order - from least powerful to most powerful - look right?
Rank 20 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 21 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 23 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 24 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 25 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 26 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 27 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion,
I did an in depth analysis of Moment of Prescience, and unfortuantely lost it because of a server error when sending it.
In brief, True Strike as a spell should probably be higher than 1st level, and as a power may be broken, since a Psion could cast it hundreds of times a day. So, it's probably not safe to compare Moment of Prescience to True Strike.
Better comparisons to Moment of Prescience (Seer 7) are Precognition (Seer 1) and Greater Precognition (Seer 6).
If 1 pp = a +1.5 onetime bonus on any roll, then:
1 pp = 1st level power = Precognition +2 (+1.5) onetime bonus
3 pp = 2nd level power = Greater Precognition +4 (+4.5) onetime bonus
9 pp = 5th level power = Moment of Prescience +13 (+13.5) onetime bonus
13 pp = 7th level power = Moment of Prescience +20 (+19.5) onetime bonus
The above values, where 1 pp = a +1.5 onetime bonus, follow the official values for Moment of Prescience closely. It's impossible that Greater Precognition is worth a 6th level power. It works better as a 2nd level power and is equivalent, give-or-take, with the Elan's Resistance ability which gives a +4 bonus on any save. Resistance can be manifested immediately unlike Greater Precognition, making the former's immediacy worth about as much as the latter's flexibility regarding any roll, not just saves. Therefore, setting Greater Precognition as a 2nd level power seems balanced.
With the above values in mind, Moment of Prescience would start at about a 5th level power.
Supposing Moment of Prescience could be manifested immediately, its roughly +15 bonus would virtually guarantee a successful roll that would virtually grant invulnerability for one round, like the 9th level powers Time Regression and Timeless Body. Supposing that Moment of Prescience could be augmented with 6 or 8 pp to manifest as an immediate action, that would make it roughly worth 17 pp in the same camp as the 9th level powers. So, 1 pp = +1.5 bonus seems balanced at high levels as well as low levels.
If Time Regression and Timeless Body are worth 9th level powers, then it seems Moment of Prescience is worth a 5th level power.
Thoughts? Would any of you choose Moment of Prescience over other 5th level powers (Rank 9)?
Originally posted by Haldrik:
LOL! Gleaning from your thunderous response, I suppose you guys wouldn't choose Moment of Prescience as a 5th-level power.
Scion compares Moment of Prescience to the 1st-level spell True Strike. A good point. True Strike gives a +20 bonus on the next attack. In this sense it's better than Moment of Prescience, which only gives a +level bonus.
At first, I thought True Strike might not be balanced as a psionic power because it could be cast so many times per day. I take this back. In fact now I wonder if True Strike might be *more balanced* as a psionic power!
In order to manifest True Strike, you would have to waste a standard action and attack on the next round. What really makes the True Strike spell broken is a Quickened True Strike plus an attack in the same round. However, when a Psion would Quicken a True Strike power, the Psionic Focus must be expended, making True Strike happen once per battle unless battle time was wasted or unless certain feats were taken (instead of other feats).
Because the target of True Strike is "You", even Schism can't attack in the same round, since the Schismed mind is someother "You", not "You"! True Strike seems balanced as a 1st-level power.
So, if True Strike balances as a 1st-level power, how can Moment of Prescience be a 7th-level power?
Moment of Prescience Versus Resistance
True Strike only applies to attack, however look at the Elan's Resistance ability that gives a +4 bonus on *any* save as an *immediate* action. For 1 pp! Because Moment of Prescience must be cast ahead of time and only lasts a few rounds, I would *rather* have the Elan's Resistance ability (which can be used after the fact when you know you need it) than Moment of Prescience. I think Resistance is *more* powerful than Moment of Prescience with regard to a save bonus.
And for sure, Resistance isn't too powerful. The 1st-level Elan has to burn a pp for the +4 save, whereas a 1st-level Paladin can get all +4 saves for free because of Divine Grace.
If Resistance costs 1 pp, that suggests the ability is equivalent to a 1st-level power. (Perhaps worth a bit more, but not much more.)
How Much Is Moment of Prescience Worth?
Moment of Prescience does have advantages: it is more versatile than either True Strike or Resistance because it applies to: AC or save or attack or skill check or stat check or almost any d20 check. Moment of Prescience should be a bit higher than a 1st level power, but not much more.
1 pp = a onetime +2 bonus on any d20 check
1 pp = really a 1st level power = Precognition +2
2 pp = really a 1st level power = Greater Precognition +4
7 pp = 4th level power = Moment of Prescience +13
Does 4th-level sound good for Moment of Prescience (since it's valuable because of its many uses)? I'm particularly asking you, Scion. Can you see yourself picking Moment of Prescience as a 4th-level power? Should it be lower?
I'm interested in what the others of you think too for the sake of a consensus.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
True strike is pretty well fine as a first level spell. It takes a standard action and is somewhat useful. It not only grants a +20 bonus but it also ignores miss chance. Insight bonus as well.
Moment of prescience is +1/level insight bonus. It lasts for 1 round/level or until discharged (1 use) for a single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw, or a one time bonus to AC.
So, it has more general uses than true strike and lasts longer but its bonus is generally much lower.
If it was a first level power then pretty much no one would ever get it, it just doesnt do anything.
At higher levels it is like true strike, it must be quicked to be useful. Manifesting it as normal in combat takes out a round where something else much more useful could've been done.
Psions are typically much worse off at putting up quickened powers.
Lets do another comparison though.
SRD:
Precognition
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events—what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Now, I know that this is seer only but this one actually has a useful duration along with giving that +2 which may be applied 'after' you find out that the roll failed.
Comparing to moment of prescience the moment can get a bigger bonus later on, but it has a much reduced duration and can only be applied beforehand.
The extra, higher bonus is nice at later levels but even then which is 'better'? Depends I suppose. But they each have their advantages.
If nothing else it could be a first level power with an augmentation. Say that it starts off +2 and for every extra pp you put into it the bonus increases by +4, but the bonus cannot be higher than your manifestor level (min +2).
Personally, I would also prefer another augmentation to make the duration more useful. Like say, +2 pp to increase the duration to 10min/level.
And why not, +8 pp to manifest as an immediate action
Sounds like a decent choice for a first level power. Probably too nice when compared with precognition but only because precognition has no augmentation which it probably should. So maybe only the first two augmentations are needed for this first level power.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
That's how I see it. Precognition can be made augmentable, and thus obsorb Greater Precognition and Moment of Prescience.
Precognition
(Greater Precognition and Moment of Prescience)
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events—what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, an opposed ability check, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Augment: You can modify this power in one or both of the following ways.
For every additional power point you spend, your insight bonus increases by +2 up to a total not exceeding your manifester level.
If you spend an additional 8 power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.
We need to think thru the augmentation carefully. Applying Precog as an immediate action is extremely powerful because you can spend exactly what you need to "fix" a failed d20 roll.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Fate of one costs 13 pp. While I think this is a good power I am not sure if it costs too much for what it does.
Still, assuming it is just right that should be a decent baseline. Hence why I said to add +8. I feel that a reroll is stronger than a +2 most of the time.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Scion, I agree that Precognition with an augment of +8 pp for an immediate action is probably balanced.
My main concern is how much the insight bonus should be.
If it can be manifested as an immediate action, then +2 (+1/pp) could be reasonable, like the Elan's Resiliance. On the other hand, since it's a onetime bonus, even your +2 (+4/pp) could be reasonable, more like True Strike.
It's tricky. Precog, Moment, True Strike, Resiliance, and Resistance all have slightly different approaches. It's tricky to know which mechanic to choose when allowing an upto +20 bonus that can also be an immediate action on any kind of d20 roll.
Assuming the immediate action is possible, you seem to be ok with the +2 (+2/pp) bonus?
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Fate of One costs 13 pp.
Immediate Precognition costs 9 pp for a +2 bonus.
Immediate Precognition costs 13 pp for a +10 bonus (with an augment of +2 bonus/pp).
A reroll is not as good as +10 bonus.
What if the bonus is base +2, with augment +1/pp? Then 13 pp gets you an +6 bonus. This is closer to the value of a reroll.
(Of course, the question remains. Is a reroll worth a 7th level power costing 13 pp?)
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Personaly, I see fate of one as more of a 4th level power. It has a very nice little effect, but it has a pretty hefty cost associated with it.
Going by that it would be 7pp.
Precognition base would be 9pp for a +2 immediately which could then be used after the roll if needed.
More augmentation to make it better would cost more.
It could be manifested ahead of time but then there is the time requirement, which could mean that those pp are wasted.
Very tricky situation
If we go by fate of one being proper where it is then it becomes much more difficult.
I just checked the 3.0 version, it actually 'was' level 4 then. So it could be that my perceptions are more for that being ok where it was (now it is a seer only power and 3 levels higher, being level 4 and seer only is much more reasonable imo, or even level 3 for a seer and level 5 for everyone else).
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Interesting.
If they nerfed Fate of One from a 4th-level to a 7th-level power, then in all likelihood there was a problem with it being 4th. However, if they nerfed it at all, then in all likelihood they way overkilled the nerf (why is this such a recurring pattern, LOL!
Because it's Seer only, I can totally relax about making it a 5th-level Seer-only power. (6th-level for everybody else.) I bet you 5th- or 6th-level is what Fate of One is really worth. We can suppose Fate of One is worth about 9 pp.
I feel good about this anchor point.
Let's try figure out how much the augment for the bonus increase should cost.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Number crunching to approximate what things seem to be worth:
Minimum: 1 pp gets you a future +2 bonus
Medium: 2 pp gets you a future +4 bonus
Medium: 9 pp gets you an immediate +2 bonus
Medium: 10 pp gets you a future +20 bonus (i.e. a multi-use True Strike)
Medium: 18 pp gets you an immediate +20 bonus
Maximum: 20 pp gets you a future +40 bonus
Maximum: 20 pp gets you an immediate +24 bonus
Precognition
(Greater Precognition and Moment of Prescience)
Clairsentience
Level: Seer 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
Precognition allows your mind to glimpse fragments of potential future events — what you see will probably happen if no one takes action to change it. However, your vision is incomplete, and it makes no real sense until the actual events you glimpsed begin to unfold. That’s when everything begins to come together, and you can act, if you act swiftly, on the information you previously received when you manifested this power.
In practice, manifesting this power grants you a “precognitive edge.” Normally, you can have only a single precognitive edge at one time. You must use your edge within a period of no more than 10 minutes per level, at which time your preknowledge fades and you lose your edge.
You can use your precognitive edge in a variety of ways. Essentially, the edge translates into a +2 insight bonus that you can apply at any time to either an attack roll, a damage roll, a saving throw, an opposed ability check, or a skill check. You can elect to apply the bonus to the roll after you determine that your unmodified roll is lower than desired.
Augment: You can modify this power in one or both of the following ways.
For every additional power point you spend, your insight bonus increases by +2.
If you spend an additional 8 power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Yeah. Going by the fullest augmentation does put all the powers into sharp relief. Some become *obviously* better than others, like MyLight versus Energy Ray.
I'm in the process of calculating each power separately. (Each has its own method of augmentation.) It's painfully boring and taking me forever. When I finish the list, I'll post it here.
I'm going with the fullest augment possible for a 20th level Psion.On a separate note,
The restricted discipline powers must be more powerful than nonrestricted powers of the same level. The Psion "specializes" in a discipline. The trade off is the loss of access to restricted powers from disciplines outside the specialization.
The restricted powers should be better, and it's important to gauge how much better they are compared to other powers.
Did I gather correctly from your previous post?
If Energy Ray is the standard, how do the others Energy Attacks compare?
Rank 18 = Energy Burst (3)
Rank 20 = Energy Ray (1)
Rank 21 = Energy Missile (either target or one object in possession) (2)
Rank 22 = Energy Bolt (3)
Rank 23 = Energy Cone (3)
Rank 24 = Energy Current (5)
Rank 26 = Energy Ball (4)
Rank 28 = Energy Wave (7)
Are the distances between them about right?
Originally posted by salla:
Are we talking raw damage, or general usefulness? The present game I have a psion in is very short on combat and very big on investigation, interactions, and puzzle-solving. I've used Mind Probe, Object Reading, and Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions a *lot* more often than I've used Energy Ray.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Is it a consensus that the Seer and the Nomad are less effective in combat?
Consolidating and calibrating the Seer's Precognition, Greater Precognition, and Moment of Prescience into a single augmentable power makes it quite beefy. I guess the Seer needs a combat potent power anyway!
(With regard to the Nomad, I'm assigning to it the ability to channel the planar energies of the Positive and Negative Planes - ie, to heal and harm - to it. I guess the Nomad needs this too.)
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Definitely both, combat and/or utility. Whichever power you *want* more is, by definition, the better power.
In fact, one thing you could do that would be really helpful, is take all the powers of a single power level and rank them from the ones you like the most to the ones you like the least.
Originally posted by Haldrik:
Alright, for now I'm organizing this a bit differently. There's over 200 psionic powers, and listing them all seems intimidating. Instead, we'll just go thru one power level at a time. We won't add any numeric values (yet). We'll just sort all of the powers within each level, from the worst one (at the top) to the best one (at the bottom).
1st-level Powers
From the Worst to the Best ...
Very Substandard (Doesn't Augment Well)
Hammer
Float
Astral Traveler
Substandard (Doesn't Augment Well)
Missive
Know Direction and Location
Detect Teleportation
Distract
Empathy
Telempathic Projection
Conceal Thoughts
Catfall
Burst
My Light
Sense Link
Call to Mind
Attraction
Destiny Dissonance
Demoralize
Deceleration
Daze, Psionic
Disable
Déjà Vu
Not Bad (Doesn't Augment Well)
Skate
Chameleon
Synesthete
Mindlink
Force Screen
Compression
Precognition
Control Light
Grease, Psionic
Control Object
Create Sound
Far Hand
Minor Creation, Psionic
Bite of the Wolf
Matter Agitation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Expansion
Detect Psionics
Not Bad (Augments Well)
Dissipating Touch
Empty Mind
Thicken Skin
Grip of Iron
Claws of the Beast
Call Weaponry
Bolt
Metaphysical Weapon
Metaphysical Claw
Stomp
Prevenom
Prevenom Weapon
Control Flames
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
Good (Augments Well)
Ecto Protection
Inertial Armor
Charm, Psionic
Mind Thrust
Very Good (Augments Well)
Energy Ray
Crystal Shard
Vigor
Astral Construct
Each and every power is better than the power before it. If you think that one of the powers is out of order, post your comments. Name the power and tell which other powers it should go between.
Originally posted by calain80:
I would put Synesthete between Chameleon and Mindlink, cause it also protects against gaze attacks.
