New Star Trek TV series to be released in 2017

Morrus · Nov 10, 2015

Umbran said:
I don't see a whole lot of resistance to it streaming here. I see resistance to CBS putting it on its own proprietary streaming service, on which they only serve their own content. Making me pay for an entire network's worth of stuff that I'm not going to watch, just for one show? Not a great business model.

Well, not ideal for you doesn't necessarily equate to "not a great business model". It works extraordinarily well for Netflix as a business model.

But like I said, there's no possible way that will be the only way to view it. You may have to wait a little bit, but CBS is a US-only thing, and it says Trek will be available worldwide. By definition it won't just be on that particular channel. I imagine it'll hit Netflix, iTunes, and the other major streaming services.

Maxperson · Nov 10, 2015

Morrus said:
Well, not ideal for you doesn't necessarily equate to "not a great business model". It works extraordinarily well for Netflix as a business model.

I don't quite agree with that. Netflix isn't comprised of only its content. It is primarily movies and T.V. shows from other networks. It has some very successful shows that are Netflix only, but how many people are on Netflix only for those shows? No way for us to know. Speaking for myself, I am on Netflix and watch House of Cards, but if I didn't have access to all the rest of the non-proprietary stuff, I wouldn't be on Netflix just for that show.

But like I said, there's no possible way that will be the only way to view it. You may have to wait a little bit, but CBS is a US-only thing, and it says Trek will be available worldwide. By definition it won't just be on that particular channel. I imagine it'll hit Netflix, iTunes, and the other major streaming services.

I think so, too. They'll probably keep it a season behind on the other services or something, but I doubt it will be CBS only.

Umbran · Nov 10, 2015

Morrus said:
Well, not ideal for you doesn't necessarily equate to "not a great business model". It works extraordinarily well for Netflix as a business model.

Except that Netflix has way, way more than just the content they produce. I'd call them a different business model, thereby.

But like I said, there's no possible way that will be the only way to view it. You may have to wait a little bit, but CBS is a US-only thing, and it says Trek will be available worldwide. By definition it won't just be on that particular channel. I imagine it'll hit Netflix, iTunes, and the other major streaming services.

Yes, but that's problematic, in terms of the life of the series. Clearly, CBS wants to use the show to drive adoption of their own streaming system. In markets where their streaming service is available, they will hold off distributing Trek to other services for as long as possible. Even for normal series content, Netflix normally runs an entire season behind, so I would expect this to be at least that long a delay, if not longer - possibly indefinitely.

But, the life of a series is typically extremely dependent on the performance of the first season - the decision to make a second season is likely to happen before other services ever get the show. However, the performance of the show will be impacted as much by where they put it as by how good it is - meaning the show can be good, or have great promise, but get canned because the decision to put it on their proprietary service keeps viewers away.

Morrus · Nov 10, 2015

Umbran said:
Yes, but that's problematic, in terms of the life of the series. Clearly, CBS wants to use the show to drive adoption of their own streaming system. In markets where their streaming service is available, they will hold off distributing Trek to other services for as long as possible. Even for normal series content, Netflix normally runs an entire season behind, so I would expect this to be at least that long a delay, if not longer - possibly indefinitely.

But, the life of a series is typically extremely dependent on the performance of the first season - the decision to make a second season is likely to happen before other services ever get the show. However, the performance of the show will be impacted as much by where they put it as by how good it is - meaning the show can be good, or have great promise, but get canned because the decision to put it on their proprietary service keeps viewers away.

Well, there we go. The business model is fine as long as the company understands how to read the ratings and makes appropriate continuation decisions.

This is the sort of show that will make 90% of its money being shown around the world. As long as CBS understands that, it'll be OK. It's not a new thing - the BBC makes a lot of shows like that where the domestic viewing figures aren't that important. As long as you understand what you're doing, it's totally fine. And Star Trek will be snapped up by thousands of channels worldwide - it's not going to have to try hard to market itself!

I wouldn't worry (well, you can worry if you want - I'm not going to!) I guess maybe us random folks on a D&D messageboard understand the business of TV marketing better, but I'm guessing that the CBS folks have a plan.

I think it's something we all need to get used to, because it will happen more and more.

Umbran · Nov 10, 2015

Morrus said:
This is the sort of show that will make 90% of its money being shown around the world.

I am not sure that assertion is correct. Data of financial performance of the various TV series in foreign markets isn't easy to find, unfortunately. However, only one Star Trek movie ("Into Darkeness") has ever made the majority of its money in foreign markets, and it only did so by 1.1%. There is *not* a major tradition for Trek to be a major hit elsewhere.

As long as CBS understands that, it'll be OK. It's not a new thing - the BBC makes a lot of shows like that where the domestic viewing figures aren't that important.

Yes, but CBS doesn't seem to have that tradition of making TV mostly for export. I don't think that's their idea here - I think they are banking on the popularity of the brand to drive adoption of their streaming service, and I think that's a mistake both for the series and the service. I think the proprietary service is itself a mistake in the current market.

I guess maybe us random folks on a D&D messageboard understand the business of TV marketing better, but I'm guessing that the CBS folks have a plan.

1) Appeal to authority - CBS's authority, in this case.

2) Because the folks who make Trek have a recent tradition of not being dumb about their approaches? Because Voyager and Enterprise were considered such smash hits of brilliant production and marketing that... they decided to retire the thing for a decade?

3) That we haven't seen other promising franchises screwed up by poor network choices pretty frequently?

Seems to me "they have a plan" is cold comfort.

darjr · Nov 10, 2015

Eh I'm the perfect match for this. Except I won't pay for CBS online so will wait till it shows else where, if ever. Even if it's good.

Knowing this is the model I won't even bother to tune into the first episode.

Morrus · Nov 10, 2015

Yikes. I am not really invested enough in this debate to start getting all line-by-line, especially since it seems to be arguing against a position that I don't really hold.

Umbran said:
I am not sure that assertion is correct. Data of financial performance of the various TV series in foreign markets isn't easy to find, unfortunately.

For you. Not for them, obviously. They don't make decisions based only on information that you have!

However, only one Star Trek movie ("Into Darkeness") has ever made the majority of its money in foreign markets, and it only did so by 1.1%. There is *not* a major tradition for Trek to be a major hit elsewhere.

We're talking about TV. Movies work entirely differently. Let's stay on target. We've already established that we don't have any data, so let's not draw conclusions based on our own lack of information.

Yes, but CBS doesn't seem to have that tradition of making TV mostly for export. I don't think that's their idea here - I think they are banking on the popularity of the brand to drive adoption of their streaming service, and I think that's a mistake both for the series and the service. I think the proprietary service is itself a mistake in the current market.

I gathered that you think it's a mistake. You've said so very clearly. As I said, I don't think we're really able to say that one way or the other.

1) Appeal to authority - CBS's authority, in this case.

As opposed to confidently asserting that something is a bad business model when you have none of the data, or know little of the long-term plans?

There's no argument to be had here. We're all just speculating. We should just try to avoid the whole "WotC is stupid because they didn't make the book exactly how I would make it!" trope, because I think it just makes us look silly.

3) That we haven't seen other promising franchises screwed up by poor network choices pretty frequently?

Well, if you're citing logical fallacies, I'm sure you can identify this one!

Seems to me "they have a plan" is cold comfort.

I don't know that they have a plan. It could all go wrong. You're misunderstanding me completely - it would be ridiculous of me to claim that they have one, when I clearly have no way of knowing that. I'm saying that boldly asserting that they don't have a good plan in place or that the business model is poor is equally ridiculous.

With a side-order of my not really caring how it's shown in the US, because that's not the method I'll have access to. That's just a non-conversation for me. I don't think I'd even heard of CBS before this thread!

Janx · Nov 10, 2015

I'm not sure why Umbran and Morrus are arguing, one or more of them needs a hug.

I like Star Trek. I will be sad to have to pay CBS for it, but I likely will. My threshold for quality is low enough I that I've seen all the TV and movie treks as well as several of the homebrew treks and was reasonably happy with them (contrast to my couldn't give a rats arse to see everything star wars)

We'll see if CBS learned its lesson from Enterprise (which suffered from a variety of things though I liked a good many parts of the show). It's not like CBS hasn't helmed all the other successful star treks (it was UPN that broadcast Enterprise).

Morrus · Nov 10, 2015

Janx said:
I'm not sure why Umbran and Morrus are arguing, one or more of them needs a hug.

Me neither. I just have a little personal bug about folks on the internet declaring that the way a company does something is definitively stupid. It's personal hubris which rubs me the wrong way!

To be fair, the worst of it on these boards is directed at WotC. Luckily this isn't that, nor is Umbran doing it particularly. I was just feeling niggly today!