D&D 5E 'The Paladin as King': Cutting Through the Hype

Leugren · Nov 18, 2015

Ilya said:
I would like to point out while the combination you mention is certainly strong, one should not expect this to be useful in any resemblance of regular play. Taking 2 rounds to come online, very few fights will actually last to the point where meaningful impact on combat will happen in the third round. Occasionally sure, but i would consider it the exception and not the rule.

This hasn't my experience, except at the lowest levels of play, but you make a valid point.

Gladius Legis · Nov 18, 2015

Hemlock said:
Boosting Str for smites... doesn't increase your number of criticals, and without a crit, smiting is pretty bad.

Strongly disagree. In fact, it's usually counterproductive to save your Smites exclusively for a crit. It's usually best to get the sure damage in an early round, preferably the first. And getting sure damage means you have to boost your to-hit stat. The only case in which I would save Smites for crits would be if a spellcaster ally leads off with a Hold Person/Monster ... and to get THOSE crits you actually do have to hit naturally, hence the need for to-hit stat in that case.

But in any event, I'll be just fine dealing 22.5 damage less than I "could've" in that crucial first round, over dealing the max potential damage in a round when the fight is more or less already won.

FormerlyHemlock · Nov 19, 2015

Gladius Legis said:
Strongly disagree. In fact, it's usually counterproductive to save your Smites exclusively for a crit. It's usually best to get the sure damage in an early round, preferably the first. And getting sure damage means you have to boost your to-hit stat. The only case in which I would save Smites for crits would be if a spellcaster ally leads off with a Hold Person/Monster ... and to get THOSE crits you actually do have to hit naturally, hence the need for to-hit stat in that case.

But in any event, I'll be just fine dealing 22.5 damage less than I "could've" in that crucial first round, over dealing the max potential damage in a round when the fight is more or less already won.

Smiting in order to get quick kills in order to decrease aggregate damage taken during a fight is frequently less effective than spending those spell points on actual spells to decrease damage taken directly.

Crits make smiting less obviously bad (if your DM even allows that cheese) but it is rarely good. Only in rare cases like against glass cannons like Orcus, in which case I agree, no point in not smiting on every hit.

What's better, inflicting 4d8 or healing 20d6? Usually the latter.

ClockworkNinja · Nov 20, 2015

Ilya said:
I would like to point out while the combination you mention is certainly strong, one should not expect this to be useful in any resemblance of regular play. Taking 2 rounds to come online, very few fights will actually last to the point where meaningful impact on combat will happen in the third round. Occasionally sure, but i would consider it the exception and not the rule.

Seeing as this combo uses the paladins channel divinity and one or more spell slots, this is the sort of nova a player would keep in reserve until fighting a boss, ideally during an ambush.

gyor · Nov 20, 2015

I think an Oath of the Ancients, Devil's Tongue Tiefling from the SCAG could be interesting.

Its gives you a cantrip ranged attack that gives enemies disadvantage making up for Paladin issues with range, gives you Charm and Entrall as well which have thier uses.

Plus the usual Charisma bonus, Darkvision, and fire resistance.

Leugren · Nov 21, 2015

gyor said:
I think an Oath of the Ancients, Devil's Tongue Tiefling from the SCAG could be interesting.

Its gives you a cantrip ranged attack that gives enemies disadvantage making up for Paladin issues with range, gives you Charm and Entrall as well which have thier uses.

Plus the usual Charisma bonus, Darkvision, and fire resistance.

Interesting concept, [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION], though I'm a bit skeptical that gaining Vicious Mockery makes up for the loss of an ASI in a class with this much MAD. Any particular reason to choose Oath of Ancients as opposed to one of the other oaths?