An alternative to Fixed Racial Ability Scores Modifiers for Non-humans?

The Myopic Sniper said:

I was thinking of trying to figure out a way to split the difference.

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I'm almost tempted to suggest remaking every race as a class (and thus treating every character as a multiclass Race/Class combo), but I fear that would get absurd!

But the more I think on it, the more the notion of "race X ignores multiclass prerequisites for class Y" appeals to me. That way Dwarves might be tempted to pick up a level or three of Fighter as they go along, regardless of their main class. And as far as I can tell, the prerequisites are actually about maintaining flavour than being for mechanical balance, so I don't think it would break anything.

delericho said:

Problem is that the current scheme often punishes those player who want to make unique and interesting characters - picking the race that gives no bonus rather than the one that gives +2 means you'll miss your most important rolls 5% more often.

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This is a very good point, and I think there are two sides to it.

First, I don't think it's always true. Personally, I try to think hard to find a way to create interesting combinations without gimping myself. I think if you are a creative player, you can find ways to make unusual combinations work.

The other side of it is that the DM has to provide challenges that aren't all numbers-based so that creative characters have something to contribute to the party.

Honestly, trying to write rules around min-maxing powergamers is an exercise in futility. However, if you want to reward a player for choosing an interesting class and race combo that's off the beaten path (a high elf barbarian, a tiefling cleric, half-elf druid, etc.), you could offer inspiration at character creation. It's not as consistently potent as a stat increase, but it's a tangible benefit for concepts that are not always the most mechanically viable but are perhaps more interesting to play.

Afrodyte said:

Honestly, trying to write rules around min-maxing powergamers is an exercise in futility. However, if you want to reward a player for choosing an interesting class and race combo that's off the beaten path (a high elf barbarian, a tiefling cleric, half-elf druid, etc.), you could offer inspiration at character creation. It's not as consistently potent as a stat increase, but it's a tangible benefit for concepts that are not always the most mechanically viable but are perhaps more interesting to play.

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This is a good idea and it also reveals something interesting about the new Inspiration system 5e. A non-stereotypical character probably has a better chance of earning inspirations in the long run, as well, just from being a creative player who is likely to do more role-playing and thus earn them.

delericho said:

I'm almost tempted to suggest remaking every race as a class (and thus treating every character as a multiclass Race/Class combo), but I fear that would get absurd!

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How very BECMI of you! Actually it is not that bad of an idea if you can resist the temptation to overpower the hybrid race classes. It might create some issues with multiclassing or players who want to go extremely against type, but I saw some attempts at race classes in the Homebrew section here and elsewhere that look pretty solid. And given the nature of the math in this edition, they will be a lot easier to balance than similar attempts in 3E.

delericho said:

But the more I think on it, the more the notion of "race X ignores multiclass prerequisites for class Y" appeals to me. That way Dwarves might be tempted to pick up a level or three of Fighter as they go along, regardless of their main class. And as far as I can tell, the prerequisites are actually about maintaining flavour than being for mechanical balance, so I don't think it would break anything.

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That might work too. Although if you totally are depending on multiclassing to maintain racial flavor you might disadvantage high level spell casters a bit... which is fine for some concepts, but things like an iconic elven wizard might suffer. I still look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I think a major problem is imbedded in how the classes are constructed in the first place. Classes tend to derive all their bonuses to the abilities they are expected to use most often from only one or two ability score. Some classes are much worse about this than other classes, but pretty much universally your choice of class leaves you in the situation of asking "why and when would I even ever use that attribute?" and usually that attribute is Intelligence with Strength and Charisma coming up behind. (I mean, really, you want one person in the group to have good charisma, everyone else can be totally lame creeps. But you are fine running a group where not one has an Intelligence or Strength above 8.)

This creates a system where there is no benefit whatsoever in boosting your lowest stat by any amount. Not outside of a few skills your character will generally never need to use and some ultra rare saves. Yes, attributes being capped at 20 does at least reduce the benefit of tanking everything else to get that 18-20 at level one, but it isn't like attribute boosts are common enough that the idea of starting with all 12-14s is going to really ever get you anywhere.

Because of this issue, I think it would be better to die the attribute boosts to class instead of race. The races still have abilities that favor one class over another, but the only one where that is basically exclusively true is Half-Orc. Half-Orc's primary ability only works if you are a melee character, if you aren't a melee tanking character as a Half-Orc you are doing it wrong, they don't function as anything else.... then again, if their attribute doesn't force strength on them, maybe they would work marginally better as something else.

So if the attribute bonuses are tied to the class rather than the race, then there would at least be considerably less reason to choose races for mechanical reasons rather than because they fit the concept of the character. Moreover, regardless of what race you choose, ultimately you can be sure you get the attribute boosts that best fit your class rather than feeling forced to take a race with a +2 to that attribute that literally all the class's abilities rely on.

The only other way to handle it, of course, would be if somehow you could substitute the attributes the class demands in for other attributes. Instead of every single Rogue ability relying on Dexterity, you could make it so there would be a Strength Rogue, an Intelligence Rogue, a Charisma Rogue and a Wisdom Rogue... maybe there would be ways to alter Wizards so that instead of everything tied to Intelligence, you could make one where your magic is tied to your Wisdom or your Charisma or even your Constitution instead. An Intelligence or Charisma style Cleric wouldn't be hard to imagine...

Basically it would require a major overhaul to the way class mechanics are done in order to really expand the sort of attribute builds that could pick up those class abilities and still be almost just as effective as the classic builds.

The Myopic Sniper said:

I was thinking of trying to figure out a way to split the difference. No ability score mods for races, but rather have saving throw proficiencies tied to race rather than class to maintain the "this race has an inherent tie to this ability score and has an advantage with certain classes" feel. It is going to require a basic rewrite of all the races though and is probably more effort than it is worth.

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Awesome idea. Use class ability score bonuses and racial saving throw bonuses. Class ability score bonuses could be on the class and the subclass for some classes (though likely chosen at 1st level?)

Barbarian: +2 Str, +1 Con
Bard: +2 Cha; +1 Str/Dex (valor) or Int (lore)
Cleric: +2 Wis; +1 varies on domain
Druid: +2 Wis; +1 Int for Land, +1 Con for Moon
Fighter: +2 Str/Dex, +1 Con/Dex (can't overlap Dex)
Monk: +2 Dex, +1 Wis; or +2 Wis, +1 Dex
Paladin: +2 Str, +1 Cha
Ranger: +2 Dex/Str, +1 Wis
Sorcerer: +2 Cha, +1 Con (dragon) or +1 Dex (wild?)
Warlock: +2 Cha, +1 Con or Int
Wizard: +2 Int, +1 Wis?

Or just only have the +2 and give 2 extra point buy points?

Then in racial write-ups, mention what their low scores "tend" to be, but let the players be outside that if their character concept requires it.

I don't have it fully thought through but I have played with the notion that your class selection give the character the ability score modifier. Corin was always a smart child so grew up and decided to become a wizard. Bran was strong and decided to be a fighter.

Doing this could allow you to eliminate or reduce the racial ability score modifier. Perhaps the ability score increases per level would be tied to the racial ability scores to reflect some racial predisposition to an ability.

Or a hybrid set up sorta like what Xeviat put up there: Get a +1 to one of the ability scores for your race (so DX or WS for elves, etc.), and then the +2 comes from your class. Something like:

Barbarian: Str, Con or Wis
Bard: Cha, Str or Dex
Cleric: Wis, Con or by domain
Druid: Wis, Int for Land, Con for Moon
Fighter: Str, Con Dex
Monk: Dex, Wis or Con
Paladin: Str, Wiss or Cha
Ranger: Dex, Con, Wis
Sorcerer: Cha, Con (dragon) or Dex (wild)
Warlock: Cha, Con or Int
Wizard: Int, Dex or con

Another way to limit the min/maxing but keep racial ability score modifiers and everything else the same it to not allow the players to arrange their scores but to assign them in the order rolled.

For example:
Fate has given Charo a base Dexterity of 8 and Charisma of 13. Since he is a halfling, Dexterity is increased to 10. He is a lightfoot halfling and so Charisma increases to 14. Hmmm, maybe Charo became aware of unusual innate magical abilities as a child and thus chooses to become a sorcerer.