D&D 5E Fixing the Champion

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krakistophales

First Post

• Jan 17, 2016

• #1

I think we can all agree that the champion archetype for the fighter is underwhelming and seems a bit nerfed compared to battlemaster and eldritch knight. So, I wanted to think of a way to make the champion just as viable an option as the other two with some homebrew. Here's what I came up with, and feel free to comment/criticize these ideas:

1. Double the crit threat range increases, so that the first one crits on 18 and the final one crits on 15.
2. For remarkable athlete, gain full proficiency bonus to all skills not already proficient in. This will make his athletics actually remarkable, instead of kinda decent.
3. Rather than picking an additional fighting style, the champion has two options at that level:
A. You can choose to gain a +1 to AC, gain DR/3 regardless of armor against all damage, including magical.
B. You can choose to gain a +1 to attack rolls and damage when wielding a melee weapon, and your force of will makes these attacks count as magical.
4. For survivor, rather than a base of 5, the base is half your fighter level.

What do you think of these changes?

 

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GameOgre

Adventurer

• Jan 17, 2016

• #2

Sorry I don't find anything wrong with the Champ, if I did though I would pick to change as little as possible in order to fix him. Like simply giving him 1 higher crit range.

 

AaronOfBarbaria

Adventurer

• Jan 17, 2016

• #3

No, we can't all agree on that - the champion is entirely viable as-is, and mechanically competitive with other options in the game, even though it might not be as engaging from a mechanical standpoint (which is actually part of the point of that subclass, since there are folks like myself that want a mechanically simple fighter to just sit back and play without any kind of resource management mechanics).

As to the changes you present, if your goal is to make the champion unquestionably mechanically superior to all the other fighter options, then those changes are right on the mark - plus have the side effect of making a "dip" into fighter even more appealing for classes like barbarian and rogue that can make great benefit out of the increased critical range.

 

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krakistophales

First Post

• Jan 17, 2016

• #4

I dunno, I played a champion fighter to level 8 and the increased critical range was barely noticeable. Increased as it would be with these changes, I feel like it would be significant enough to take this archetype. The only thing I'd amend is to make the second increase to 16 rather than 15, to make it an even 10% chance increase each time, for a 25% total.

 

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Azurewraith

Explorer

• Jan 17, 2016

• #5

whats up with the champion hes in a good place. The changes you propose seem to be way over the top and trample on other guys schtick point 2 walks all over the bards jack of all trades and removes a place for him to shine and as for 3 A and B +1 may not seem alot but bounded accuracy and all it is alot.

 

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krakistophales

First Post

• Jan 17, 2016

• #6

You sure? Remember that crits only double damage dice, and disregarding multi-classing, critting on an 18 is paultry for 17 levels of investment into an archetype.

 

GameOgre

Adventurer

• Jan 17, 2016

• #7

Champ is the only type to see any play at my table. The other two builds while attractive are already not attractive enough for my players. If you want to alter the champ at your table regardless of what other tables have experienced that's cool man and more power to you! I just don't see it myself. With that said though, your changes are neither simple or limited and would effect multiple areas at once.

Put it this way. With the changes you listed.....who in the heck would make a fighter and not choose champ?

 

ad_hoc

(they/them)

• Jan 17, 2016

• #8

krakistophales said:

I think we can all agree that the champion archetype for the fighter is underwhelming and seems a bit nerfed compared to battlemaster and eldritch knight.

Click to expand...

I don't. I think it is awesome and well designed.

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Jan 17, 2016

• #9

Yeah, count me among those disagreeing with your basic premise. I've seen champions played at multiple levels through two different campaigns, and I think it's quite well designed. Simplistic to play, yes, but that's the entire point. Balance-wise, it's solid as-is.

 

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Punchycal

First Post

• Jan 17, 2016

• #10

Hi there, I'm pretty new to dnd and the fighter is my favourite class. So far I've played with a battle master (who sadly died at level 4) and found the manoeuvres to be flexible, useful and fun. These abilities are guaranteed to influence your combat performance straight away at level 3, whereas I know I've played whole sessions without rolling a 19 or 20 to hit. As my experience of the game is only at low levels I would like the champion better if his features took effect at lower levels but obviously reduced in power, something like this;

Improved critical. 18-20 at level 9, 17-20 at level 15.

Additional fighting style. At level 7.

Survivor. At 3rd level regain 1 Hp when less than half remaining. At level 9 regain con modifier Hp.

Basically I probably won't ever get to a high enough level to unlock the champions cool abilities, +1 to crit chance between level 3 and 10 seems pretty insignificant.