Arcane Archer Wanted - Eldritch Knight or...?

Looking for some advice here. I usually come up with a character idea first and then have to figure out a way to build it within the rules (AL-legal). What I want this time is basically an arcane archer, with the following stipulations. First, I want to use a longbow, and be attacking with it as my primary action and using magic mostly for utility and such. Second, I want my main magic stat to be Int, not Wis or Cha, which rules out refluffing a Ranger, Bard, or Warlock.

The most obvious answer to what I want seems like it'd be an Eldritch Knight, but I'm a little concerned that between the slow casting progression and the relative lack of usefulness of the EK features (Weapon Bond is trivial, and War Magic isn't much good for an archer, is it?), I would feel like a weak link. The only spells I'd ever really cast would be Shield and Misty Step (I only expect to get to level 10, if I'm lucky, so I'll never see Haste, sadly). I thought about Magic Initiate Warlock to grab Hex, but that does necrotic damage, and since this is for Season 4 AL, I'm concerned about stuff resisting it. I don't know what anyone else is playing yet, but I'll feel stupid if I'm totally outclassed by someone's Ranger or Warlock or whatever. I'm not trying to powergame, I just don't want to feel second-class because of a perfectly reasonable (in my mind) conceptual choice.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Can an EK archer pull its weight well enough? Any build suggestions (feats, multiclassing) that I might not have considered? It's a shame there isn't an Int-based half-caster, that'd be perfect.

Thanks!

EK, Arcane Trickster, and Wizard are the only options for Int based spells.
Fighter and Rogue work well with a bow. Elf can give you proficiency in longbows.

What's best really depends on how much archer, and how much arcane you want. Maybe some of each.


Though valor bards are probably the best overall.
You could also avoid all spells that require saves. Shield, misty step, and swift quiver for instance, don't care about their casting modifier.

Thanks for the reply! I do have a solid grasp of it all, I know how each class works and everything - and yeah, you can build a solid EK without even having any Int because of spells that don't use the casting modifier. I guess what I'm really wondering is, in practical terms, how well does an EK archer play? I was hoping maybe someone had played one and could comment on whether it worked well or was fun for them. We had a Ranger in our group last year who was a real terror with his bow, but then Rangers have spells that are directly designed to enhance their ranged attacks. EKs don't get anything along those lines.

As for how much archer vs. how much spellcaster... I definitely wanted to primarily shoot arrows, but after that, who knows. I'm open to options like going Battle Master and taking Magic Initiate, for example, or Battle Master 5 or 6 then some Wizard levels... without the insight of someone who's tried any of this, or even someone who is better at more advanced building, though, I'm just theorizing.

I'm not even sure, aside from Shield (and the unattainable Haste) which spells I'd want to cast most, be they in or out of combat, so I was open to suggestions there too. Also, any interesting things to be done with bonus actions, since my action will generally be most optimally used to shoot things.

Anyway. Just seeing if anyone had any input.

aoikaze said:

Thanks for the reply! I do have a solid grasp of it all, I know how each class works and everything - and yeah, you can build a solid EK without even having any Int because of spells that don't use the casting modifier. I guess what I'm really wondering is, in practical terms, how well does an EK archer play?

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Like most other fighter archers. Still plenty of damage.

Generally i would suggest utility spells. Find familiar, darkvision, rope trick, invisibility, and fog cloud (good for stealth). All work without Int.

With Int, i suggest grease, tasha's hideous laughter, and suggestion. Combined with eldrich strike is pretty powerful.

Also, from levels 7-10 firebolt + 1 attack will do more damage then multi-attack, assuming Int.

I have an elf EK who's advanced to level 6 so far, and I've been having a good time with it. My current plan is to advance as a wizard from level 7 on up. Because EK counts 1/3 lvl towards spell slots, this means my first level wizard has 3rd level spell caster spell slots...conveniently the same as a 7th level EK would have had...so I lose nothing on that front.

Now, I do potentially lose the 2nd level spell known that I would have had as a 7th level EK, but since wizards can freely (well, at a cost, but otherwise freely) scribe spells into their books, I'd simply buy some scrolls.

Switching to wizard removes the pesky limited spell selection that EK's have, costing me only a few EK class features I don't care too much about anyway. And it will allow my spell slots to grow much faster moving forward, making support magic easier to use.

Waiting until 6 to change means I keep the bonus attack from fighter at 5, as well as the fighter bonus feat at 6...and it means I get full spell slot progression from EK.

Now, I do have a 16 in Intelligence...as a high elf, it's the best I could get while still having a decent Dexterity. I don't plan on using much direct attack spells, but it gives me a decent enough number of preparation slots to be useful as a support/utility mage and lets me rely on a good archery attack for damage.

It's too soon to say precisely how well that combination will work, but I think it works pretty good by the numbers. We shall see!

Shayuri said:

Now, I do potentially lose the 2nd level spell known that I would have had as a 7th level EK, but since wizards can freely (well, at a cost, but otherwise freely) scribe spells into their books, I'd simply buy some scrolls.

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I sketched out a version of this exact concept, EK6/W4, and the spells known being stuck at L1 for so long was my big concern. I hadn't really thought about scrolls being the answer to that problem, but that would work, assuming the DM is nice about providing the opportunity to find or buy them, which is always the crucial question!

Update: actually, do I understand multiclass spell preparation properly? Walking this through...

CL6) At EK6, I have 3 L1 slots and know 4 spells, max level 1.

CL7) When I add W1, my slots now are determined by the multiclass rules (EK/3, Wx1), which means caster level 3. That means I have 4xL1 slots and 2xL2 slots. A Wiz1 gets a spellbook with 6 L1 spells in it. With Int 16, I can prepare 4 spells (1+3). I have L2 spell slots, so I can prepare L2 spells, but I don't have any yet, unless I find some. I still know the same 4 L1 spells I had as an EK and don't need to prepare them from my book, and that never changes.

CL8) When I add W2, that's multiclass caster level 4, for 4xL1 and 3xL2 slots. When you gain a Wizard level, you add 2 spells to your book for which you have slots, so I add 2 spells of level 1-2. Then I have the 4xL1 EK spells and then with an Int of 16, I can prepare 5 (2+3), still with a max level of 2.

CL9) When I add W3, my caster level is 5, for 4xL1, 3xL2, and 2xL3 slots. I can add 2 spells of level 1-3 to my book and can prepare 6 spells of level 1-3.

CL10) Finally, when I add W4, my caster level is 6, for 4/3/3. I can add 2 spells of level 1-3 to my book and prepare 7 spells of level 1-3.

Is that all correct? If so, that's better than what I first thought, and this seems much more workable, even without DM scroll generosity.

aoikaze said:

CL6) At EK6, I have 3 L1 slots and know 4 spells, max level 1.

CL7) When I add W1, my slots now are determined by the multiclass rules (EK/3, Wx1), which means caster level 3. That means I have 4xL1 slots and 2xL2 slots. A Wiz1 gets a spellbook with 6 L1 spells in it. With Int 16, I can prepare 4 spells (1+3). I have L2 spell slots, so I can prepare L2 spells, but I don't have any yet, unless I find some. I still know the same 4 L1 spells I had as an EK and don't need to prepare them from my book, and that never changes.

CL8) When I add W2, that's multiclass caster level 4, for 4xL1 and 3xL2 slots. When you gain a Wizard level, you add 2 spells to your book for which you have slots, so I add 2 spells of level 1-2. Then I have the 4xL1 EK spells and then with an Int of 16, I can prepare 5 (2+3), still with a max level of 2.

CL9) When I add W3, my caster level is 5, for 4xL1, 3xL2, and 2xL3 slots. I can add 2 spells of level 1-3 to my book and can prepare 6 spells of level 1-3.

CL10) Finally, when I add W4, my caster level is 6, for 4/3/3. I can add 2 spells of level 1-3 to my book and prepare 7 spells of level 1-3.

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Your spells known/adding spells to your book via leveling is done basically pretending that you are a single-class wizard of that level. So no you will never have spells for your highest slots unless you copy them.

As far as this build goes, keeping with the idea of using int for your stat my suggestion would be Diviner wizard/Arcane Trickster Rogue get rogue3 and then pump into wizard til 10 (3/7) This way you do not need extra attack and with things like true-strike you can use your cantrips to help you get sneak attacks, also hold person is nasty with this kind of thing. Personally I am playing an AT rogue(very multiclassed but mostly that) and I love the utility the spells/cantrips give me, I didn't pick up any damaging spells or cantrips just htings for sneaking or illusion, it's been great.

Kithas said:

Your spells known/adding spells to your book via leveling is done basically pretending that you are a single-class wizard of that level. So no you will never have spells for your highest slots unless you copy them.

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Hm, that's what I originally thought, and reading it again, yeah, of course, because of the words "on the Wizard table" (p.114 under "Learning Spells of 1st Level or Higher). It makes more sense if you think about someone multiclassing two classes with different spell lists, but since EK and Wizard use the same list, it's not as obvious. So it's back to being dependent on luck and/or the good will of the DM.

Rogue's an interesting idea. Sneak attack is trivial to get via the ally-within-5-feet-of-target rule. I may sketch out some builds there, just for comparison's sake.

I wouldn't be super worried about not having slots for your highest level. In general it will mean that you can overcast some things and just get more casts of others. You miss out on some of the diversity but not much in the way of power level.

Yeah, it's probably not such a big deal overall. If I look at the spell list, it's mostly utility/non-combat stuff I might want, with the big exception of Haste (and maybe Fireball, for fun's sake). Surely I can manage to find/buy a couple of scrolls. It's not even going to be an issue for months, but I like to make sure I'm not trapping myself.