What sort of character will you build for Curse of Strahd?

What class of character do you think you will build?

  • Barbarian

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Bard

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Cleric

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • Fighter

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • Monk

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • Paladin

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Ranger

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Sorcerer

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Warlock

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • Wizard

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Poll closed .

Inconnunom

Explorer
In previous editions, there was an idea that a monk could make an unarmed strike with anything -- a head, a leg, whatever -- but that doesn't apply in 5E.
--
Pauper

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/25/unarmed-kick-elbow-head/

Up to the DM and leave it there, IMO. Either way the focus of the thread has really derailed.


A friend and I rolled randomly to determine class/ race/ and backgrounds.
I will be playing a halfling Paladin with a PTSD soldier (standard bearer) background. "I can't lose them... Not again!!!"
And my friend is a Moon Druid starting a cult that worships him (ala Charles Manson).
 

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kalani

First Post
Whether a beast can make unarmed strikes or not is something not covered by the rules - as unarmed strikes themselves are almost unmentioned outside of a single entry in the combat section, references in the martial arts ability, a clarification/correction in the PHB errata, and I believe one mention in the MM.

I should also add that somewhere in the rules (I believe it is the monster manual, but I could be wrong) it clearly states that monsters can take any action available to any character, as well as those specifically listed in their monster stat blocks.

Monsters aren't only limited to those particular actions listed in their stat block. All monsters are potentially capable of Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Use Object, or make any Attack action they like (including grapple, shove, and possibly attack with an improvised weapon or unarmed strike) as these actions are available to all characters. In fact, of all the actions listed in the combat section of the PHB, only the cast a spell action specifically requires a special ability to perform.

With that being said, it is subject to DM interpretation as to whether any given monster has the physiology and/or intelligence sufficient to perform any of these actions - and as such, expect table variation. Heck, even in cases where a monster lacks intelligence, they might still be capable of performing some of these actions if properly justified.

I for example, have on occasion had zombies make accidental help (grapple/athletics and shove/athletics) actions when a group of zombies try to simultaneously maul a PC. While two or three zombies in the mob will make grapple and/or shove (prone) actions, the remaining zombies attempts to simultaneously grapple and maul the PC essentially "help" the grappling zombie to keep the PC pinned (granting them advantage), while others make slam attacks or unarmed strikes (clawing and biting), usually while prone themselves (as they aren't the brightest of creatures, and I tend to run my zombies similar to how they work in movies). The zombies themselves are not deliberately working in a cohesive unit, but are still unintentionally helping each other due to their mob activity.

By RAW, there are no clear rules allowing or prohibiting a creature armed with natural weapons from making an unarmed strike. If a PC can make an unarmed strike with a free hand (while holding a weapon in the other), it is possible for some creatures to be capable of unarmed strikes as well - bears being the best example. As such, expect table variation.
 
Last edited:

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/25/unarmed-kick-elbow-head/

Up to the DM and leave it there, IMO. Either way the focus of the thread has really derailed.

As Kalani is fond of pointing out, DMs in Adventurers League don't have the luxury of coming up with their own house-rules when the rules as published in the Player's Handbook are clear. And though a discussion of how rules get applied in AL isn't off-topic for the forum, I'll agree that it is derailing the thread.

Our store had just started Season 2 on Wednesday nights, so I wasn't expecting to have to answer this question for a while. Then, at last night's session, our DM announced that we'll be transitioning over to Season 4 (and creating new characters for that season) in March. Though arcane casters are my favorite character type in 5E, I haven't yet played one at this table because many others like playing arcane casters as well, so we'll see how it goes.

--
Pauper
 


Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Whether a beast can make unarmed strikes or not is something not covered by the rules - as unarmed strikes themselves are almost unmentioned outside of a single entry in the combat section, references in the martial arts ability, a clarification/correction in the PHB errata, and I believe one mention in the MM.

That reference is significant, though, because it occurs in the Vampire entry, where the Vampire is explicitly given an Unarmed Strike attack. If a monster does not have such an attack, then it is not making an unarmed strike; it is making an attack with a natural weapon, as noted in the Monster Manual and in the SRD.

It should also be noted that the Martial Arts ability is prefaced on the monk either being unarmed or wielding only monk weapons -- the ability explicitly says that the benefits are only available in those cases. So a monk wielding a non-monk weapon might still be able to make an unarmed strike (as noted in the SRD on p.95), but it would not be a Martial Arts unarmed strike, because the monk doesn't qualify to use the benefits from Martial Arts while armed with a non-monk weapon. It would be a 'regular' unarmed strike, based on Str and doing 1+Str damage as noted in the SRD.

If we are going to say that DMs can't house-rule other areas where the rules are explicit but not very user-friendly (such as the druid rule that they "will not wear armor or use shields made of metal"), we should be consistent and say that here, too.

--
Pauper
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
I should also add that somewhere in the rules (I believe it is the monster manual, but I could be wrong) it clearly states that monsters can take any action available to any character, as well as those specifically listed in their monster stat blocks.

Monsters aren't only limited to those particular actions listed in their stat block. All monsters are potentially capable of Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Use Object, or make any Attack action they like (including grapple, shove, and possibly attack with an improvised weapon or unarmed strike) as these actions are available to all characters. In fact, of all the actions listed in the combat section of the PHB, only the cast a spell action specifically requires a special ability to perform.

This is accurate, but not relevant -- the key is not whether the monster can make an unarmed strike, but whether a monster with the Martial Arts ability can use that ability while armed with a non-monk weapon. The only way this falls under DM interpretation is if the DM decides that a natural weapon does or does not count as a simple melee weapon that doesn't have either the two-handed or heavy properties; if she does, then a natural weapon would count as a monk weapon as defined in the Martial Arts ability, despite natural weapons not appearing on the weapon list. Or, I suppose, if the DM wants to rule that a natural weapon isn't a weapon, but that seems intuitively wrong.


By RAW, there are no clear rules allowing or prohibiting a creature armed with natural weapons from making an unarmed strike.

Again, it's not whether a creature with a natural weapon can make an unarmed strike -- it clearly can, though it would have to defer from using its natural weapons to do so, save for the Vampire which has an explicit Unarmed Strike attack -- it's whether that creature qualifies to use the benefits of Martial Arts while armed with a weapon that doesn't fall into the definition of a monk weapon. Based on the entries in the SRD noted in my previous posts, I'm willing to say that a creature armed with a natural weapon doesn't qualify to gain the benefits of Martial Arts. To rule otherwise may be possible, but based on guidance given for other such rulings, I think such a ruling would qualify as a house-rule and be prohibited from AL.

--
Pauper
 



Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Reposting my last comment to help get back on-topic:

Our store had just started Season 2 on Wednesday nights, so I wasn't expecting to have to answer this question for a while. Then, at last night's session, our DM announced that we'll be transitioning over to Season 4 (and creating new characters for that season) in March. Though arcane casters are my favorite character type in 5E, I haven't yet played one at this table because many others like playing arcane casters as well, so we'll see how it goes.

--
Pauper
 

Byakugan

First Post
I'm still very much in love with my gnome evoker from season 1. His original build got changed because sage background is almost useless in AL, but I still really love his flavor.

He is a jovial character with a quick wit. He rarely attacks first, but he has a fiery temper if you mess with his friends. Fireball is his way of saying 'hands off!' His flaw is...well, his wardrobe just won't do without a bright orange accessory. His favorite color.

He is proficient in tinkers tools, smith's tools, and jewelers tools. He uses these skills to craft intricate replicas of significant foes he has encountered in his travels. His latest addition is an effigy of Rezmir, and a wyvern. He's not high enough level yet, but he is planning to use Animate Objects to use his collection to fight the enemy. His way of subverting the bad guys and using their own powers against themselves. He can sculpt his spells to avoid hurting his toys, and in case they do get broken, Fabricate can fix em back up in a jiffy.

If I get the chance to play tier 2 in S4, the little guy will be visiting Ravenloft to say hello.
 

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