New RPG coming out soon?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
1. What is canon? For example the Jedi forms (Shi-Cho, Niman etc) aren't mentioned by names in the films, CGI TV series or new books, but clearly some Force users are using these techniques in the aforementioned media. It seems pedantic to disregard them.

I don't think I agree. Note how WEG d6 Stars Wars didn't have "forms" in the core game? Was it pedantic for them to disregard them? No, because the concept didn't exist! In addition, WEG Star Wars is a bit more cinematic than it is tactical.

As you say, the canon does not mention "forms". There's just "stuff Jedi do". In four of the movies, the swordsmanship is so basic that it doesn't really speak to there being diverse formalized form being taught at all. This makes all kinds of sense, as there's no *community* of Jedi in these movies, the only difference in styles is personal to the few practitioners we see. In four out of seven movies, by the canon, it doesn't make sense to have "forms". That's not pedantic, that's the most basic of genre emulation.

But even in the prequel movies, is there really any sign of organized "forms"? There's just "stuff Jedi do", sure. But what we see may be as much or more about the Jedi's individual personal preference, proclivity, and strengths than it is about the Jedi martial arts classifications.

Now, if you are playing a game whose design is built for those who like to have a significant number of small tactical choices (like, say, something in the 3.x d20 branch, like d20 SWSE), then it is okay to have a bunch of feats, talents (or the system's equivalent) for things we see Jedi do. But you'd also want a bunch of tactical choices for what bounty hunters do, and what roguish pilots do. In a more narrative design, it doesn't make much sense to have these. Which means this less about canon, and more about game design and desired tactical depth.
 

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Chimpy

First Post
Yes I see your point. I don't know anything about the old star wars RPGs I'm afraid. Before my tabletop gaming time.

I think making a game canonical, and making a well designed game with interesting and descriptive options might be, at least partially, at odds with other.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Disney themselves have said there are levels of canon, it's not black and white.
Not disney.

Disney has only said 3 levels: Films+Rebels+CloneWars+NewNovels, Legends (aka old EU), and Non-canon

Lucasfilm used to have multiple levels... but that was before the disney roll out of the new canon committee.

The implications of not bearing a Legends graphic but not being included in the canon list implies the RPG to be a 4th Disney canon level, but doesn't actually state such.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Yes I see your point. I don't know anything about the old star wars RPGs I'm afraid. Before my tabletop gaming time.

I think making a game canonical, and making a well designed game with interesting and descriptive options might be, at least partially, at odds with other.

Well, note - WEG's d6 Star Wars was, at the start, pretty canonical, and it didn't have "forms", and *lots* of people *loved* it.

As the game went on, they did include material that wasn't canonical, and some of that got used by Extended Universe authors and became canon. However, the game was well-played (for something that wasn't D&D, before that).

As critical thinkers about games, we need to note that there's are gamers who like things that aren't our cup of tea, and that we can have a well-designed game that isn't what we, personally, would like to play.

There is a point where many players feel a thing is over-specified. A step away from "forms", and dropping the huge amounts of clearly defined mechanical options for Jedi, is what many would call a step back into making the Jedi "magical and wondrous" again.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Well, note - WEG's d6 Star Wars was, at the start, pretty canonical, and it didn't have "forms", and *lots* of people *loved* it.

As the game went on, they did include material that wasn't canonical, and some of that got used by Extended Universe authors and became canon. However, the game was well-played (for something that wasn't D&D, before that).

As critical thinkers about games, we need to note that there's are gamers who like things that aren't our cup of tea, and that we can have a well-designed game that isn't what we, personally, would like to play.

There is a point where many players feel a thing is over-specified. A step away from "forms", and dropping the huge amounts of clearly defined mechanical options for Jedi, is what many would call a step back into making the Jedi "magical and wondrous" again.

It's more correct to say that the WEG D6 universe was pretty much the entirety of the EU for the first couple years; the Han and Lando novels were OOP, as were most of the comics... so the SW junkies had to get their fix via the SW RPG...

And then, based upon the interest it roused, several authors pitched novels which LFL approved. Some of these then went on to authorize sourcebooks based upon their novels. It fed back and forth.

Right up until WEG failed to make the payments.

But, since it took several years for WotC to launch the D20 edition... which never had the traction to create setting the way WEG had... Nor the room to do so easily. Those 5 years of no WEG material had a huge lot of novels come out, plus the prequels plus the TV show...

FFG is in a position not too far from that of WEG... Canon is much reduced, there's lots of room to breathe... unlike WEG, there's a lot of EU to draw from, but no obligation to use it all. And FFG isn't canon, at least as far as can be told, but is subject to canon committee approvals...
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
It's more correct to say that the WEG D6 universe was pretty much the entirety of the EU for the first couple years;

I largely agree, but this does mostly miss the point I was attempting to make - that being canonical (especially with respect to character powers and abilities) and being well-designed with interesting player options are not necessarily at odds with one another. There was a time when there wasn't much in the way of explicitly designed powers and abilities beyond the basic movie canon, and a lot of folks still really loved the game, and found it well designed and interesting (at least for its time - today we might think of some of WEG d6 to be a tad clunky).
 

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