agreenspan
First Post
2FTR/18WIZ is easily the strongest 9th lvl caster gish Human Variant polearm master. With haste: attack, bonus action attack, green-flame blade each round. Option to fireball, action surge, fireball.
D&D 5E Best Gish
Without multiclassing it can be done because of melee cantrips to pretty dope effect. Abjurer mountain dwarf wizard is no joke, the bonus proficiencies that otherwise make little sense with the stat bonuses, all that extra HP topped off with alarm from the abjuration school, running around beating people to death with a dwarf wizard just seems so badass. Paladin is so badass they are often accused of being OP. Valor Bard is pretty chill too, moreso I feel than pact of the blade warlocks. Eldritch knight is okay, but they're progression is slow enough that they may seem a little boring for people looking for that experience. They get shield, which is so dope it might as well be their class feature, and occasionally they get to drop a thunderwave or whatever. Rather than running around chopping fools with one hand and fireballing with the other, for quite a bit at least. Effective but not super sexy.
With multiclassing 2/18 fighter wizard is awesome. Some of the best fighter stuff that synergism great, for slightly delayed progression. It's so good from an optimization standpoint, I find it hard to argue why every wizard shouldn't dip into fighter just based of mechanics. You lose almost nothing to get more survivability, martial weapons, and action surge. Double fireballs! 2/18 paladin sorcerer isn't too bad either, some of the cool fighter stuff plus slot progression, a few new spells, and smites with full caster slots. The 13 str requirement for MCing is kind of annoying though, as I imagine many gish sorcs are looking at dex based dragon builds. Barbarians explicitly have abilities based on strength, but paladins have them working off melee which you can do with finesse. Feel like maybe it should be str or dex like a fighter but that's another topic.
7/13 eldritch knight is pretty chill, comes on a little late. But you can cast your melee cantrip, and then as a bonus action make a normal melee attack every turn. You get the normal cool stuff of a fighter extra hitpoints, con save, action surges and such. Better break point than 11, because 1 cantrip and 1 attack is likely to be as good or better than 3 normal attacks. You end up with access to lvl 7 spells, you got the casting slots of a lvl 15 caster. You're a bit lower on health than you'd want from a frontliner, but it sorta kind works out to a d8 which ain't shabby, abjuration school can help quite a bit, and if you're human consider Tough. You also get some niceness from evocation though, dropping 2 fireballs on your own face on a short rest, adding int damage to your melee cantrip, which forms most of your DPR. This is sorta more for the guy who really want to be a fighter, but also wants to cast a bunch of arcane spells. Rather than a wizard wearing armor or a fighter who has a couple magic tricks.
With multiclassing 2/18 fighter wizard is awesome. Some of the best fighter stuff that synergism great, for slightly delayed progression. It's so good from an optimization standpoint, I find it hard to argue why every wizard shouldn't dip into fighter just based of mechanics. You lose almost nothing to get more survivability, martial weapons, and action surge. Double fireballs! 2/18 paladin sorcerer isn't too bad either, some of the cool fighter stuff plus slot progression, a few new spells, and smites with full caster slots. The 13 str requirement for MCing is kind of annoying though, as I imagine many gish sorcs are looking at dex based dragon builds. Barbarians explicitly have abilities based on strength, but paladins have them working off melee which you can do with finesse. Feel like maybe it should be str or dex like a fighter but that's another topic.
7/13 eldritch knight is pretty chill, comes on a little late. But you can cast your melee cantrip, and then as a bonus action make a normal melee attack every turn. You get the normal cool stuff of a fighter extra hitpoints, con save, action surges and such. Better break point than 11, because 1 cantrip and 1 attack is likely to be as good or better than 3 normal attacks. You end up with access to lvl 7 spells, you got the casting slots of a lvl 15 caster. You're a bit lower on health than you'd want from a frontliner, but it sorta kind works out to a d8 which ain't shabby, abjuration school can help quite a bit, and if you're human consider Tough. You also get some niceness from evocation though, dropping 2 fireballs on your own face on a short rest, adding int damage to your melee cantrip, which forms most of your DPR. This is sorta more for the guy who really want to be a fighter, but also wants to cast a bunch of arcane spells. Rather than a wizard wearing armor or a fighter who has a couple magic tricks.
Currently playing a Gish.
Variant-Warlock 13/Fighter 3/Sorcerer 4
Pact of the Blade: Fiend (Greatsword pact weapon)
Battlemaster: Maneuvers are great to have, and recharge on a short rest.
Shadow Origin: I like the flavor, and Strength of the Grave is an amazing Gish ability.
Stat Priority Heavy: Str/CHA>CON>DEX>WIS/INT
Stat Priority Light: CHA>DEX>CON>WIS/INT
Specifics
13 levels in warlock gives you:
-Three 5th level spells per short rest
-Six invocations
-Dark One's Blessing (the temp HP really helps in melee)
-Dark One's Own Luck
-Fiendish Resistance (Change your resistance every short rest)
-6th and 7th level spells, once per day.
Invocations:
You get six(6) invocations, but Agonizing Blast, Lifedrinker, and Thirsting blade are mostly required. Repelling Blast greatly increases your utility, while fiendish vigor can be used for a guaranteed 8 temp HP at the start of every fight.
Fighter 3 gives:
-Great Weapon Fighting
-Second Wind
-Action Surge
-Four Superiority dice for; Riposte, Precision Strike, Maneuvering strike (personal preference)
Sorcerer 4 gives:
-Three 2nd and Four 1st level spell slots (1st level spell slots for hex!)
-Darkvision, and cast Darkness for 1 sorcery point
-Strength of the Grave
-Four Sorcery points MetaMagic; Quickened spell + any
Feats:
Level 1: Warcaster
Level 4: Heavy Armor proficiency (recommended to start as fighter 1, otherwise you're stuck with medium armor!)
Level 8: Great Weapon Master
Level 12: ASI OR Resilient, choosing CON (proficiency AND advantage makes hex more reliable)
Level 4 (sorc): ASI
ALTERNATIVE!
Instead of a 4th sorcerer level, you may opt to take a 14th level in warlock. The basic trade here is Hurl Through Hell(1 round of removal + 10d10psychic) vs ASI. I personally do not care for long rest abilities, and though HTH is strong, it doesn't fit my RP.
House Rules that increase effectiveness:
-Temporary HP stacks, once per source.
-Dark One's Blessing stacks (RP wise, being blessed with vigor for sacrificing enemies to your fiend seems like it would stack)
-Warcaster removes disadvantage from spell attacks made in melee range
-Add casting modifier to damage from spells (We use this when someone is missing from the group. The added damage is not QUITE as good as the missing person, but allows fights to remain hard.)
-Retrain a feat; We allow retraining within reason. For example, medium armor proficiency retrained to heavy armor proficiency. DM required 2 sessions of wearing Heavy Armor during combat (and taking the disadvantages/lack of casting that comes with it). If your DM agrees to this, feel free to start as a sorcerer/warlock instead of fighter. Take medium armor proficiency before Warcaster.
If you don't want to spend a feat for armor, Armor of Shadows gives you access to a free Mage Armor. You may want to play with dex weapons if you go this route. This moves all feat selections up, and gives you another ASI. If you do not need 2 (3 if you skipped resilient) ASIs, by all means take HTH.
Basic play:
I'm in love with this character, and though it will never be as strong as a Warlock 2/Sorc 18, the versatility and damage output are satisfying. Eldritch Blast can be used defensively by pushing enemies away from injured allies. Lifedrinker/ThirstyBlade/GreatWeaponMaster&Fighter ensure your melee stays up to snuff.
Rules to Know:
PHB 164; Pact magic slots can cast sorcerer spells and vice versa
PHB 202; You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Maneuvers are NOT bonus actions. They're modifiers you may spend, much like meta magic.
Spells You'll Need
-Armor of Agathys
-Shield
-Hex
-Hellish Rebuke
Engagements at range;
-Eldritch Blast/Hex.
-If you're looking to thin some numbers, Twin-spell Hex onto the two weakest in range, then smack em with an Eldritch Blast. Still at range next turn? Congrats, quicken spell Eldritch Blast, regular cast Eldritch Blast**.
Engagements at melee:
-Armor of Agathys goes on for melee engagements.
-Shield (+5 AC, immune to Magic Missile) is your reaction when you need to survive more than you need to do damage, otherwise Hellish Rebuke and Riposte* are your friends.
Advanced Play:
Precision Strike + Great Weapon Master + Action Surge: One of the biggest "Blow Your Load" combos available to us. Each attack receives +10 dmg, and the -5 to attack is almost entirely negated by adding a 1d8 to the roll. Assuming 18 strength (+4) and level 5 (+3 proficiency), and assuming all attacks hit, the damage output is [14+2d6(reroll 1/2)] *4 This gives us a MINIMUM of 64 damage, where you rolled a 1 on your d6 8 times. If you've got Hex on the enemy to be hit(It's a bonus action, so you should!), add another d6 to each hit. At 12, add CHA to each hit. If you kill an enemy OR crit during these 4 attacks, take another one! Though, you're out of superiority dice, so you'll have to settle for 7+2d6(reroll 1/2) +d6 (hex).
Quicken Spell + Eldritch Blast+ Melee attack: Melee Attack first, then use a quickened eldritch blast to push the enemy away, or vice versa. This can be amplified with Great Weapon Master and Maneuvers.
-Ally surrounded by 2 enemies. Quicken Eldritch Blast, push first enemy 10 feet back for EACH hit. Use Maneuvering strike on second enemy to allow ally free disengage.
*Note the synergy here. Hellish Rebuke triggers when you're hit, while riposte triggers when they miss.
** Don't forget to add 1d6 EACH time it hits. If you took repelling blast, be careful not to push them out of range
Sorcerer spell slots are amazing. Shield and Hex can both be cast through level 1 slots, while level 2 slots can be turned into sorcery points for more quickened eldritch blasts.
Notes;
-Champion/Eldritch Knight archetypes are much less useful overall
-Any sorcerous origin is viable. Pick whatever suits your RP
-Spells are free game. Eldritch Blast is your bread and butter cast, so your spell choices are personal!
-The basis for this was inspired by WoW's Lich King. The spells I choose favor cold/necrotic, meaning finger of death is the only option for 7th level spell.
-Stripped bare, this is an Off-tank Heavy with spell versatility.
First post, and first time visiting these forums, so please excuse any errors in formatting! If you have any questions about the build, playstyle, or general criticisms, feel free to send me a PM if it would derail the thread!
Variant-Warlock 13/Fighter 3/Sorcerer 4
Pact of the Blade: Fiend (Greatsword pact weapon)
Battlemaster: Maneuvers are great to have, and recharge on a short rest.
Shadow Origin: I like the flavor, and Strength of the Grave is an amazing Gish ability.
Stat Priority Heavy: Str/CHA>CON>DEX>WIS/INT
Stat Priority Light: CHA>DEX>CON>WIS/INT
Specifics
13 levels in warlock gives you:
-Three 5th level spells per short rest
-Six invocations
-Dark One's Blessing (the temp HP really helps in melee)
-Dark One's Own Luck
-Fiendish Resistance (Change your resistance every short rest)
-6th and 7th level spells, once per day.
Invocations:
You get six(6) invocations, but Agonizing Blast, Lifedrinker, and Thirsting blade are mostly required. Repelling Blast greatly increases your utility, while fiendish vigor can be used for a guaranteed 8 temp HP at the start of every fight.
Fighter 3 gives:
-Great Weapon Fighting
-Second Wind
-Action Surge
-Four Superiority dice for; Riposte, Precision Strike, Maneuvering strike (personal preference)
Sorcerer 4 gives:
-Three 2nd and Four 1st level spell slots (1st level spell slots for hex!)
-Darkvision, and cast Darkness for 1 sorcery point
-Strength of the Grave
-Four Sorcery points MetaMagic; Quickened spell + any
Feats:
Level 1: Warcaster
Level 4: Heavy Armor proficiency (recommended to start as fighter 1, otherwise you're stuck with medium armor!)
Level 8: Great Weapon Master
Level 12: ASI OR Resilient, choosing CON (proficiency AND advantage makes hex more reliable)
Level 4 (sorc): ASI
ALTERNATIVE!
Instead of a 4th sorcerer level, you may opt to take a 14th level in warlock. The basic trade here is Hurl Through Hell(1 round of removal + 10d10psychic) vs ASI. I personally do not care for long rest abilities, and though HTH is strong, it doesn't fit my RP.
House Rules that increase effectiveness:
-Temporary HP stacks, once per source.
-Dark One's Blessing stacks (RP wise, being blessed with vigor for sacrificing enemies to your fiend seems like it would stack)
-Warcaster removes disadvantage from spell attacks made in melee range
-Add casting modifier to damage from spells (We use this when someone is missing from the group. The added damage is not QUITE as good as the missing person, but allows fights to remain hard.)
-Retrain a feat; We allow retraining within reason. For example, medium armor proficiency retrained to heavy armor proficiency. DM required 2 sessions of wearing Heavy Armor during combat (and taking the disadvantages/lack of casting that comes with it). If your DM agrees to this, feel free to start as a sorcerer/warlock instead of fighter. Take medium armor proficiency before Warcaster.
If you don't want to spend a feat for armor, Armor of Shadows gives you access to a free Mage Armor. You may want to play with dex weapons if you go this route. This moves all feat selections up, and gives you another ASI. If you do not need 2 (3 if you skipped resilient) ASIs, by all means take HTH.
Basic play:
I'm in love with this character, and though it will never be as strong as a Warlock 2/Sorc 18, the versatility and damage output are satisfying. Eldritch Blast can be used defensively by pushing enemies away from injured allies. Lifedrinker/ThirstyBlade/GreatWeaponMaster&Fighter ensure your melee stays up to snuff.
Rules to Know:
PHB 164; Pact magic slots can cast sorcerer spells and vice versa
PHB 202; You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Maneuvers are NOT bonus actions. They're modifiers you may spend, much like meta magic.
Spells You'll Need
-Armor of Agathys
-Shield
-Hex
-Hellish Rebuke
Engagements at range;
-Eldritch Blast/Hex.
-If you're looking to thin some numbers, Twin-spell Hex onto the two weakest in range, then smack em with an Eldritch Blast. Still at range next turn? Congrats, quicken spell Eldritch Blast, regular cast Eldritch Blast**.
Engagements at melee:
-Armor of Agathys goes on for melee engagements.
-Shield (+5 AC, immune to Magic Missile) is your reaction when you need to survive more than you need to do damage, otherwise Hellish Rebuke and Riposte* are your friends.
Advanced Play:
Precision Strike + Great Weapon Master + Action Surge: One of the biggest "Blow Your Load" combos available to us. Each attack receives +10 dmg, and the -5 to attack is almost entirely negated by adding a 1d8 to the roll. Assuming 18 strength (+4) and level 5 (+3 proficiency), and assuming all attacks hit, the damage output is [14+2d6(reroll 1/2)] *4 This gives us a MINIMUM of 64 damage, where you rolled a 1 on your d6 8 times. If you've got Hex on the enemy to be hit(It's a bonus action, so you should!), add another d6 to each hit. At 12, add CHA to each hit. If you kill an enemy OR crit during these 4 attacks, take another one! Though, you're out of superiority dice, so you'll have to settle for 7+2d6(reroll 1/2) +d6 (hex).
Quicken Spell + Eldritch Blast+ Melee attack: Melee Attack first, then use a quickened eldritch blast to push the enemy away, or vice versa. This can be amplified with Great Weapon Master and Maneuvers.
-Ally surrounded by 2 enemies. Quicken Eldritch Blast, push first enemy 10 feet back for EACH hit. Use Maneuvering strike on second enemy to allow ally free disengage.
*Note the synergy here. Hellish Rebuke triggers when you're hit, while riposte triggers when they miss.
** Don't forget to add 1d6 EACH time it hits. If you took repelling blast, be careful not to push them out of range
Sorcerer spell slots are amazing. Shield and Hex can both be cast through level 1 slots, while level 2 slots can be turned into sorcery points for more quickened eldritch blasts.
Notes;
-Champion/Eldritch Knight archetypes are much less useful overall
-Any sorcerous origin is viable. Pick whatever suits your RP
-Spells are free game. Eldritch Blast is your bread and butter cast, so your spell choices are personal!
-The basis for this was inspired by WoW's Lich King. The spells I choose favor cold/necrotic, meaning finger of death is the only option for 7th level spell.
-Stripped bare, this is an Off-tank Heavy with spell versatility.
First post, and first time visiting these forums, so please excuse any errors in formatting! If you have any questions about the build, playstyle, or general criticisms, feel free to send me a PM if it would derail the thread!
Last edited:
famousringo
First Post
Am I reading this right that you're adding your proficiency bonus to damage rolls? That ain't right.
zaratan
First Post
one gish I was thinking with twin booming blade is human v. tempest sorc 3/ great old one, pact of tome warlock 3
warcaster
shillelagh + booming blade
with hex
twin booming blade (2d8 +3 in one and 2d8 +1d6 +3 in other +2d8 if move). Quick dissonant whisppers (great old one) 3d6 in hex target you can go 10 feet back and get an AoO that you use eldritch blast whitout desadvantage for 2d10 +2d6 +6 and 2d8 for leaving booming energy. Really good with a bard in party for a bard inspiration dice.
total of 2d10 +4d8 +6d6 +9 in one target and 2d8+ 3 (plus 2d8 if move) in other. 3 SP and 2 1st lvl spell slot. You can burn your 2 short rest 2nd lvl spell slot from warlock and recover the 2 1st lvl and 2 SP. All the cantrip damage will increase with lvl
Downside: Survavibility in melee
Z. H. Darkstar
Explorer
Solution: Fighter 1 dip at 1st level to gain armor + shield proficiency, Second Wind, and Defense FS without sacrificing your Con save proficiency.
zaratan
First Post
or Favored soul if DM allow, but you'll need mobile feat.
If get fighter 1, you lose 9th lvl spell slot latter. You can deep fighter 2 for action surge too, or even 3 for combat superiority.
Z. H. Darkstar
Explorer
Most games don't even go into 9th level spell territory, so it's not a major loss. Theorycrafting 20 level builds is great for finding combos, but practical build-crafting should be done with a cap of 10th-12th level instead.
zaratan
First Post
I completly agree with that. Still, you're lowering your spell progression that's already lowed since you multiclassed 3 lvl.
With party help, mirror image or even darkness, you can survive. And can use long range attacks when you need.
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