D&D 5E Best Gish

There are kind of a lot of variables to consider: what level you're starting/ending at, and whether you're allowing multiclassing, feats, and variant rules (including Unearthed Arcana and splatbooks.) That makes it hard to give much of a definitive response.

Without multiclassing, I'm probably most drawn to valor bard or tempest cleric, both of which seem to play pretty nicely on their own. I'm not sure if straight paladin counts as a gish here -- it doesn't get full caster progression, but has a decent number of magical tricks, so YMMV -- but if so, that's another very strong option.

With multiclassing, I'm a huge fan of (Ftr 1 or 2) or (Paladin 2) with Warlock x. Starting from level 1 and playing up, I think Ftr 1/Warlock 5 is the better way to go, then picking up Ftr 2 at any point after that. (Ftr 1/War 4 is pretty painful when the other players are all getting their level 5 class abilities.) If you're starting at lvl 10+, Pal 2/War x may be the better way to go, as the Second Wind isn't as useful and you potentially have more, higher level slots available for smiting.

With feats, Heavy Armor Master is fantastic for warlocks, who get access to lots of easily renewable temporary hps and end up making very solid tanks.

I haven't looked much at splatbooks and UA options, because we don't really use them in our games -- we basically use core rules with feats and multiclassing. I have the impression there are some neat tricks you could pull off, though.

famousringo said:

Am I reading this right that you're adding your proficiency bonus to damage rolls? That ain't right.

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You're entirely correct. I was fairly tired when I wrote this up, and I have edited my post to not include proficiency bonus in the damage. Thanks for catching that!

procproc said:

With feats, Heavy Armor Master is fantastic for warlocks, who get access to lots of easily renewable temporary hps and end up making very solid tanks.


I haven't looked much at splatbooks and UA options, because we don't really use them in our games -- we basically use core rules with feats and multiclassing. I have the impression there are some neat tricks you could pull off, though.

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If you have access to Heavy Armor through paladin, Heavy Armor Master is a great pick, though 3 damage from melee attacks isn't a ton without resistance. With an AC of 18/20 (plate armor w/ and w/o shield), being able to cast Shield as your reaction is an amazing boost in survivability as well, if you ever dip into sorcerer.
Shield of Faith is a good substitute since it lasts 100 rounds instead of 1, while Bless and Heroism are great party boons. The biggest downside to these spells, however, is that they use up your concentration slot, and can't be used together with hex; the main reason I decided against paladin.


With hex not scaling well with Pact Magic spell slots (only duration increases, and you'll probably either lose concentration or short rest), you'll almost always want to cast it through a level 1 spell slot from another class. Paladin gets so few spell slots per day (which you'll probably be spending on Shield of Faith and Divine Smite), you lock yourself out of increased spell versatility.

Regarding the UA and Splatbooks, many of the spells are so/so IMO, but as stated in my previous post, UA's Sorcerous Origin: Shadow gives Strength of the Grave. From your 1st level in sorc, you get to make a CON save of 5+damage taken whenever your HP drops to 0. If you pass the save, you're at 1 HP instead. There's no limit on how many times you can use this, and with the amount of mitigation a Heavy Armor Gish is packing, you might be getting up quite a few times. If you have War Caster and Resilient/Fighter start, you have both proficiency AND advantage on the roll. If you're choosing Fiend in warlock and are at least level 6 in warlock, you can use Dark One's Own Luck to add a d10 to the saving throw once per SHORT rest, which can make up for bad rolls, or allow you to survive against a DC you didn't think was possible.

zaratan said:

one gish I was thinking with twin booming blade is human v. tempest sorc 3/ great old one, pact of tome warlock 3
warcaster
shillelagh + booming blade


with hex
twin booming blade (2d8 +3 in one and 2d8 +1d6 +3 in other +2d8 if move). Quick dissonant whisppers (great old one) 3d6 in hex target you can go 10 feet back and get an AoO that you use eldritch blast whitout desadvantage for 2d10 +2d6 +6 and 2d8 for leaving booming energy. Really good with a bard in party for a bard inspiration dice.


total of 2d10 +4d8 +6d6 +9 in one target and 2d8+ 3 (plus 2d8 if move) in other. 3 SP and 2 1st lvl spell slot. You can burn your 2 short rest 2nd lvl spell slot from warlock and recover the 2 1st lvl and 2 SP. All the cantrip damage will increase with lvl


Downside: Survavibility in melee

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I love the idea of Booming Blade being used by a Gish! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the spell's damage increases with total level, correct? As far as survivability goes, rolling with shield from sorcerer, a dex based build with Mage Armor, and Mirror Image, you increase your survivability quite a bit. With a dex modifier of +3 (the lowest I would consider viable for attempting a melee build), your AC is 16. Not bad. Using ASI's on dex will allow you to cap out at AC 18, which is the equivalent of plate armor. You can use a warlock invocation to cast it at-will, it doesn't require concentration, and it lasts 8 hours. You should always have it on, even while sleeping!

So even without dipping into a physical-focused class, you can hit an AC of 18, and boost it to 23 on a 1st-level reaction. Misty Step let's you get out when you run into trouble in melee.

Kreinas said:

I love the idea of Booming Blade being used by a Gish! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the spell's damage increases with total level, correct? As far as survivability goes, rolling with shield from sorcerer, a dex based build with Mage Armor, and Mirror Image, you increase your survivability quite a bit. With a dex modifier of +3 (the lowest I would consider viable for attempting a melee build), your AC is 16. Not bad. Using ASI's on dex will allow you to cap out at AC 18, which is the equivalent of plate armor. You can use a warlock invocation to cast it at-will, it doesn't require concentration, and it lasts 8 hours. You should always have it on, even while sleeping!

So even without dipping into a physical-focused class, you can hit an AC of 18, and boost it to 23 on a 1st-level reaction. Misty Step let's you get out when you run into trouble in melee.

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Yes, boombing blade and eldritch blast will increase. But in lvl 17th, eldritch blast + quick eldritch blast (while with hex) will have a better damage/resource.

You can get a good AC latter, and make things better with Armor of Agathys, and great invisibility, or darkness + devil's sight (I don't like much that one in melee since you can blind your partners). You can go for fiend patron to get temp HP with kills, you don't get dissonant whisppers, but get command, less damage but can afect more than one creature with higher spellslot. Repealing blast would be great here, making impossible to the target/s of the run spell come back to you and attack in the next turn. If you have a party optimization for battlefield control, this can be great. Grab Thorn wipe with Pact of tome too when you need to pull the targets (twin).

The problem here is your survivability consume resources, and you need that to make high damage every time is possible.
The best option would be favored soul sorcerer (well, if fact shadow sorcerer is even better, but totally unbalanced)

I just made human wizard with the variant race rules giving him a bonus feat, so I gave him a criminal background and the feat Tavern Brawler. I am looking forward to regularly getting to say "I cast Fist!". Multiclassing in a level or two of Fighter should round him out nicely, but I am open to suggestions...

But do we mean best as in "best in a fight" or best as in "mos useful"? The utility a character brings to the party is important too... Clearly a Gish *has* to be good in a fight but it's only one pillar

Ancalagon said:

But do we mean best as in "best in a fight" or best as in "mos useful"? The utility a character brings to the party is important too... Clearly a Gish *has* to be good in a fight but it's only one pillar

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If you're looking for a combination of combat and utility, then go for a Half-Elf Arcane Trickster 15/Bladesinger 5. You'll have 8 skill proficiencies, 4 Expertise, Dex/Int/Wis saves, 3rd level rituals, 5th level spell slots, 5 ASIs to max out Dex/Int and grab a feat, 22 AC while bladesinging, 8d6 Sneak Attack that stacks with BB/GFB, and Versatile Trickster to gain advantage when needed for Sneak Attack.

When people can't even agree on what a gish is, I doubt that voting for the best will do any good ^^

My favorite is 17 tempest cleric/3 sorc
V human
Start as sorc -> s1/c5 -> s3/c5
14 10 12 8 15 13 -> 15 10 12 8 16 13
Full heavy + shield armor
Full cleric progression
Twinned spells and cantrips for dpr, lightning lure shenanigans with thunderbolt strike,
and call lightning with quicken, thunderbolt strike and channel divinity becomes a multipurpose tool.
Feats: Magic Initiate for Shillelagh, Warcaster, Resilient WIS and 2 WIS ASI
CON CHA AND WIS save profs.

Gtdef said:

When people can't even agree on what a gish is, I doubt that voting for the best will do any good ^^

My favorite is 17 tempest cleric/3 sorc
V human
Start as sorc -> s1/c5 -> s3/c5
14 10 12 8 15 13 -> 15 10 12 8 16 13
Full heavy + shield armor
Full cleric progression
Twinned spells and cantrips for dpr, lightning lure shenanigans with thunderbolt strike,
and call lightning with quicken, thunderbolt strike and channel divinity becomes a multipurpose tool.
Feats: Magic Initiate for Shillelagh, Warcaster, Resilient WIS and 2 WIS ASI
CON CHA AND WIS save profs.

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I am doing the exact opposite. Working up to Draconic (Bronze) Sorcerer 17/ Tempest Cleric 3, currently Sor 7/Cle 3
Keep Sanctuary, Healing Word, and Lesser Restoration prepared for some healing utility.
Lightning and Thunder cantrips and spells.
Shield and mirror image for some extra martial defense when needed.
Counterspell and dispel magic for some magic defense.
Next level I'll be taking haste to improve my gish tendencies.

High damage spells, gish, with some utility. I love it.

Gtdef said:

When people can't even agree on what a gish is, I doubt that voting for the best will do any good ^^

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Part of the problem is that the Gish is a spectrum of Might vs. Magic with a wandering sweet spot.

I was in the process of writing up a synopsis of the various Gish-type characters I could make for my next character, and listing their Pro's and Con's. Its *REALLY* tough because they all look so enticing, and then when you look at the creative Multi-Class combo's listed here it gets even harder to pick and choose!

This might be a stupid question, but can a straight-up abjurer function in close combat?

I'm in the early stages of conceiving a character for an upcoming game, and my idea is to start with an elf for the Dex bonus and weapon proficiencies. With 16 Dex and mage armor, he'd have 16 AC baseline and could use shield and absorb elements to reduce the damage he takes, on top of arcane ward. The focus would be on eating enemy attacks, control, and fun combinations like booming blade followed by misty step, or lightning lure into investiture of flame.

What do you think, is there anything there?