ALL THE BRICKS - OOC

Shayuri · Mar 21, 2016

Messing around with decker builds, just for curiosity. It's trickier than I expected to balance the trifecta of skills, attributes and money. Technomancers have the benefit of not needing the monstrously expensive deck...but they pay for it in lack of access to the superior stats available to decks and via augmentation.

A decker version of Death Otter IS slightly better at hacking... Logic 7 (via augmentation) helps a lot, and while the Tsurugi cyberdeck has Matrix Attributes comparable to the TM's overall...it can freely swap the low score to whatever it doesn't need at the moment, making it much more efficient. Not to mention the various programs available on decks provide bonuses that TMs simply can't get until they submerge, and even then only one at a time.

For all that though, TM Death Otter is better at stealth, slightly better with guns, and will probably be able to Submerge and improve her attributes long before Decker Otter can afford a substantial upgrade to her deck. I would project that TM Otter could potentially get an edge on Decker Otter as a hacker...especially if Decker Otter decided to backfill some of the deficiencies I saddled her with so I could afford a semi-decent deck, with karma. However, Decker Otter has 5 Edge. 5! That alone can make a huge difference on a long run.

To anyone reading this who is actually good at character design, and may be experiencing actual physical pain from reading this, please bear in mind that I'm pretty new to building hackers in 5th Ed and don't claim to know the power combos...and that making the super uber hacker who can't do much else isn't really my goal with this character. Ideally I have a character who can reliably accomplish objectives against the types of systems we'll be going up against. It doesn't have to be easy...just fairly reliable.

TillForPie · Mar 21, 2016

Technomancers are much harder to build correctly, in my opinion, whereas deckers kind of build themselves. With a decker just prioritize resources at A and skills at B. Buy the best cyberdeck you can (one of the availability 12 decks) and pump your Logic to max. Attributes are kind of a dump stat for deckers (all they really need is Logic).

In terms of raw dice pools deckers are going to be the kings. Technomancers are about pulling all sorts of neat tricks in the Matrix and using sprites to do the heavy lifting. If you try to play a technomancer in the same way as a decker you'll probably get nailed by the first competent spider you come across. There's a good post here (by dezzmont) about wrapping your head around the intended technomancer playstyle. You should probably choose based on which concept appeals to you the most. If you want help tweaking your character, whichever path you choose, just let me know.

Shayuri · Mar 21, 2016

Hmmm!

Interesting.

See, when I was making Death Otter, I started getting the sense that Sprites would be something I'd have to rely on to help patch over some of my deficits...but I didn't make the connections to the utility of some of these Complex Forms.

So happily, I -did- invest in pretty decent Tasking skill group. Unhappily, I skimped on Complex Forms.

Happily, they are not expensive to buy...especially when you can summon and register sprites to teach you.

Thanks for this! It's given me a lot to think about.

Edit - You know...if I ditch Natural Hardening, which seems overpriced at 10 karma for a relatively narrow application, I am within a stone's throw of affording Exceptional Attribute which I could use to raise my Logic to 7...get a leg up on early hacking until I can afford some of the sprites and skills and qualities that I'd need to go that way.

A stone's throw being 4 karma shy. Hm. It feels a little like dirty minmaxing, but then again...being the annoying smartypants IS the concept.

HMM.

Blah. Nah. I'm not going to go grubbing for negative qualities just to score a few points. It's fine. I don't have to be hyper optimized.

One question though. Reviewing Complex Forms, I'm not sure Transcendent Grid is a good choice, at least to start. To be fair, I'm fuzzy on how grids work, but something with more broad utility like Resonance Veil or Puppeteer would probably be a better starting purchase. And it'd give me more time to learn the system from experience.

What is your take on Resonance Veil, by the way? What can be done with it? What can't be? The description is very...open to interpretation.

GlassEye · Mar 23, 2016

When he was seven years old, Rakesh Malakar’s novacoke-addicted mother sold him to Orson James, aka Flakk, former drone pilot in the UCAS military, so she could purchase her next hit. Flakk, retired from the military and from shadowrunning, ran a body shop in the [Low, dangerous section] of the New York Sprawl that catered to the combat bike circuit, subscribed to an astounding number of conspiracy theories, and occasionally held closeted meetings with a number of presumeably ex-military personnel.

Rakesh grew up listening to Flakk rant, either about his work or bizarre theories, fetching tools, cleaning the floor, and serving as general shop boy. Eventually he learned a portion of Flakk’s trade, enough for Flakk to affectionately call him Grease Monkey.

When Flakk died of some new illness sweeping the streets of the sprawl, Rakesh took over the shop. He renamed it ‘Infernal Machine’ with a faded piece of lined paper taped to the inside window, but was forced to sell off the lion’s share of the equipment to pay bribes. With only a few drones and a small reserve of equipment and cash left, Rakesh took the ‘runner name ‘Lum the Mad’ and turned to the shadows.

GlassEye · Mar 23, 2016

This just about killed me but I'm posting it up for comments. I still have 11 Karma, a few unspent Contact points, and about 50,000nuyen still to spend (Need: nonlethal ammo). This doesn't include the free fake SIN and fixer contact. Can you use karma on contacts? I'd like a good gear contact but I don't have the points. Also, need to add details on Contacts and Dependent. Might take a low-level gang enemy if I need more karma.

In case it's relevant, I'm not as crazy about the in-the-van, comatose, style of rigging as I am getting the character in and in the line of fire but I'm willing to play it either way depending on what the job requires.

[sblock=OOC]

Code:

== Info == 
Street Name: Lum the Mad
Name: Rakesh Malakar
Movement: 8/16
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human Male Age 22
Height 5 ft 7 in Weight 140 lbs
Composure: 4
Judge Intentions: 5
Lift/Carry: 6 (45 kg/30 kg) 
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 57710

== Priorities == 
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: C - 16 Attributes
Special: E - Mundane
Skills: B - 36 Skills/5 Skill Groups
Resources: A - 450,000¥

== Attributes == 
BOD: 3
AGI: 3 (4) 
REA: 4 (6) 
STR: 3
CHA: 2
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 2
EDG: 5

== Derived Attributes == 
Essence:                   2.60
Initiative:                9 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative:         9 + 1d6
Astral Initiative:         
Matrix AR Initiative:      9 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    3 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     3 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         9

== Limits == 
Physical:                  5
Mental:                    5
Social:                    3
Astral:                    5

== Active Skills == 
Aeronautics Mechanic       : 2                      Pool: 6
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 1
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 3
Automotive Mechanic        : 2                      Pool: 6
Blades                     : 0                      Pool: 3
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 3
Computer                   : 3                      Pool: 7
Con                        : 1 [Fast Talk]          Pool: 3 (5)
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 3
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 3
Disguise                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 2
Electronic Warfare         : 6 [Sensor Operations] Pool: 10 (12)
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 3
Etiquette                  : 1 [Street]             Pool: 3 (5)
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 3
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Free-Fall                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Gunnery                    : 5                      Pool: 9
Gymnastics                 : 1                      Pool: 5
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Hardware                   : 3                      Pool: 7
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 3
Impersonation              : 0                      Pool: 1
Industrial Mechanic        : 2                      Pool: 6
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 1
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 1
Leadership                 : 0                      Pool: 1
Locksmith                  : 1                      Pool: 5
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 3
Nautical Mechanic          : 2                      Pool: 6
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Negotiation                : 0                      Pool: 1
Perception                 : 2                      Pool: 5
Performance                : 0                      Pool: 1
Pilot Aircraft             : 5 [Remote Operation]   Pool: 11 (13)
Pilot Ground Craft         : 5 [Wheeled]            Pool: 11 (13)
Pilot Walker               : 1                      Pool: 7
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 5
Pistols                    : 2 [Semi-Automatics]    Pool: 6 (8)
Running                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Sneaking                   : 2 [Urban]              Pool: 6 (8)
Software                   : 3                      Pool: 7
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 1
Swimming                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 3
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat             : 0                      Pool: 3

== Knowledge Skills == 
Area Knowledge: Neighborhood : 3                      Pool: 6
English                    : N                      Pool: 0
Gangs                      : 3                      Pool: 6
News                       : 1 [UCAS]               Pool: 4 (6)
Shadow Community           : 1 [Rumours]            Pool: 4 (6)
Sports                     : 1 [Combat Biking]      Pool: 4 (6)
Sprawl Life                : 1 [Scavenging]         Pool: 4 (6)

== Contacts == 
Grindhouse (1, 2) 

== Qualities == 
Dependent (Nuisance)
Gearhead

== Lifestyles == 
Infernal Machine Shop  2 months 

== Cyberware/Bioware == 
Control Rig Rating 2
Datajack
Muscle Toner Rating 1
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2

== Armor == 
Armor Jacket                        12
   +Chemical Protection 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
Clothing                            0
Helmet                              2
   +Image Link
   +Micro-Transceiver
   +Motion Sensor

== Weapons == 
Ares Predator V
   +Concealable Holster
   +Flashlight, Standard
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   Pool: 6 (8)   Accuracy: 7   DV: 8P   AP: -1   RC: 4
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 3   Accuracy: 5   DV: 3S   AP: -   RC: 1

== Commlink == 
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6) 
   +Sim Module, Hot
   +Simrig
   +Electronic Paper
   +Satellite Link
   +Subvocal Mic
   +Trid Projector
Vulcan Liegelord (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 5, FWL: 6) 
   +Signal Scrub
   +Toolbox
   +Virtual Machine
   +Encryption
   +Armor
   +Biofeedback Filter
   +Shell
   +Sneak
   +Stealth
   +Track
   +Wrapper
   +Agent Rating 3
   +Configurator
   +Autosoft (Maneuver) Rating 6
   +Autosoft (ClearSight) Rating 6
   +Autosoft (Targeting) Rating 6

== Gear == 
Contacts Rating 3
   +Flare Compensation
   +Smartlink
   +Image Link
Fake SIN (Jamie Kahn) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Matrix Software License) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 4
Glasses Rating 4
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 2
   +Vision Magnification
   +Radio Signal Scanner
Headphones Rating 5
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 2
   +Select Sound Filter Rating 1
   +Spatial Recognizer
Jammer, Area Rating 4
Jammer, Directional Rating 6
Tag Eraser
Tool Kit (Aeronautic Mechanic)
Tool Kit (Automotive Mechanic)
Tool Kit (Hardware)
Tool Shop (Aeronautic Mechanic)

== Vehicles == 
GMC Bulldog Step-Van (Van)
   +Rigger Interface
   +Satellite Link
   +Sensor Array Rating 6
      +Camera
      +Motion Sensor
      +Laser Range Finder
      +Atmosphere Sensor
Hyundai Shin-Hyung (Sport Sedan)
   +Rigger Interface
   +Sensor Array Rating 6
      +Camera
      +Motion Sensor
      +Laser Range Finder
      +Atmosphere Sensor
Lockheed Optic-X2 (Small)
   +Sensor Array Rating 3
      +Camera Rating 6
      +Microphone, Laser Rating 3 [Audio Enhancement 1, Select Sound Filter 2] 
      +Microphone, Directional Rating 3 [Audio Enhancement 1, Select Sound Filter 2] 
MCT Fly-Spy (Minidrone)
   +Sensor Array Rating 3
      +Motion Sensor
      +Camera [Low Light, Vision Enhancement 1, Vision Magnification] 
      +Laser Microphone [Audio Enhancement 1, Select Sound Filter 1] 
MCT Fly-Spy (Minidrone)
   +Sensor Array Rating 3
      +Camera [Low Light, Vision Enhancement 1, Vision Magnification] 
      +Motion Sensor
      +Laser Microphone [Audio Enhancement 1, Select Sound Filter 1] 
MCT-Nissan Roto-drone (Medium)
   +Weapon Mount
   +Ammo: Explosive Rounds (Assault Rifles) x120
   +Sensor Array Rating 4
      +Camera [Flare Compensation, Low Light, Smartlink, Vision Magnification] 
      +Camera [Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2, Vision Magnification] 
      +Laser Microphone [Audio Enhancement 1, Spatial Recognizer] 
      +Olfactory Sensor
      +Ultrasound
Shiawase Kanmushi (Microdrone)
   +Sensor Array Rating 3
      +Camera [Low Light, Vision Enhancement 1, Vision Magnification] 
      +Motion Sensor
      +Laser Microphone [Audio Enhancement 1, Select Sound Filter 2]

== Background ==
When he was seven years old, Rakesh Malakar’s novacoke-addicted mother sold him to Orson James, aka Flakk, former drone pilot in the UCAS military, so she could purchase her next hit. Flakk, retired from the military and from shadowrunning, ran a body shop in the [Low, dangerous section] of the New York Sprawl that catered to the combat bike circuit, subscribed to an astounding number of conspiracy theories, and occasionally held closeted meetings with a number of presumeably ex-military personnel.

Rakesh grew up listening to Flakk rant, either about his work or bizarre theories, fetching tools, cleaning the floor, and serving as general shop boy. Eventually he learned a portion of Flakk’s trade, enough for Flakk to affectionately call him Grease Monkey.

When Flakk died of some new illness sweeping the streets of the sprawl, Rakesh took over the shop. He renamed it ‘Infernal Machine’ with a faded piece of lined paper taped to the inside window, but was forced to sell off the lion’s share of the equipment to pay bribes. With only a few drones and a small reserve of equipment and cash left, Rakesh took the ‘runner name ‘Lum the Mad’ and turned to the shadows.
[/sblock]

Shayuri · Mar 23, 2016

Hehe, I hear you about how hard it is to make riggers. I've toyed with a few builds, and they always leave me feeling like I'm sacrificing a bit too much of what I want to get what I need.

I have some quick comments though!

1) Attribute distribution - Speaking strictly in terms of what's mechanically viable, you can probably afford to focus your attributes a bit more around things riggers need. Agility, Strength...they don't help you too very much, at least not directly. Willpower, on the other hand, helps you resist damage in Matrix combat. Unless you're consciously embracing that vulnerability, you may want to rethink skimping on that.

2) Similarly, you might consider dropping the Muscle Toner and seeing if you can scrape up something like a Cerebral Booster or similar. Agility will only be useful to ya if you're caught away from your drones/vehicle...in which case one extra die in the pool probably isn't going to make a lot of difference.

3) Equipment tweaks. Your Ares Predator doesn't really need a gas-vent 3 recoil suppression system. A semi-auto pistol would find it very hard to rack up as much recoil as that can compensate for.

You may also consider a Low Light Vision system for your helmet rather than a flashlight on the gun. Passive always trumps active for shadowrunning purposes, when it can do the same job.

Your commlink might be a bit burlier than it strictly needs to be, since you can use your RSS to protect your PAN from intrusion. Some Firewall upgrades to a lesser model might do you better than having a beefy-as-hell commlink. That said, it's only 5 grand, so it's not costing you much (propotionally to your total wealth

).

Your gundrone has a weapon mount, and assault rifle ammo...but no assault rifle. An AR is a solid choice, but consider too the advantages of having a sniper rifle on a drone.

TillForPie · Mar 23, 2016

I feel your pain. The Shadowrun rulebook is the messiest and most poorly-designed RPG book that exists. It's a beautiful mess, but still a mess.

Riggers use a variety of attributes and skills depending how they're controlling their drones. There's a lot of confusion and debate on the internet about how best to interpret the (sometimes contradictory) rules-as-written so we'll settle how it'll work in ALL THE BRICKS.

This is going to get into tl;dr territory, but rest assured that once we have it all figured out it'll actually be quite simple to operate the things on runs.

Three main ways to control a drone:

1.) Autonomously. With this method the drone is controlling its own movement and decision-making. You tell it what to do and it decides how to best to follow your orders. Advantages of this method are that there's no limit to how many drones you can control and you don't have to babysit the things. Downside is that the drone isn't going to be as good as you. When you're not taking more direct control a drone will revert back to autonomy.

Autonomous drones will use [(Drone's Pilot Attribute x2) + 4d6] as their initiative and will attack with [Drone's Pilot Attribute + Targeting Autosoft].

2.) Remote Control. With this method you're piloting a drone or a group of drones using your RCC. From your character's perspective it's kind of a mix between a shooter and a real time strategy game. Advantages are that you get to use your own attributes and skills, which will almost certainly be better than the drone's. Downsides are that you're limited in the variety and number of drones you can control. You'll do best when piloting either a single drone or a group of identical drones that you're giving similar orders to. You're also going to be a bit too busy piloting the suckers to do much in meatspace but you won't be comatose or anything. This is kind of the best of both worlds and you'll likely be using remote control often.

When you're remote controlling a drone the things will use your own initiative and you'll be attacking with [Your Agility + Your Gunnery].

3.) Jumped In: With this method you've implanted your consciousness into a drone (or rigged vehicle!) - the drone has become your body in a literal sense. The primary advantage is that you get to use your own skills and attributes as well as your own matrix initiative - so the drone is gonna be able to tear it up. The downsides are that you can only jump into one drone at a time, your meat body becomes comatose, and damage done to your drone can result in biofeedback damage to you (varying based on whether you are cold-simming or hot-simming). Frankly this method is best used when operating vehicles but it can be good when you absolutely, positively have to kill every last mother in the room. Be careful.

When you're jumped in you'll be using your matrix initiative (which will vary based on whether you are cold-simming or hot-simming) and you'll be attacking with EITHER a.) [Your Agility + Gunnery (limited by mounted weapon's accuracy)] OR b.) [Your Logic + Gunnery (limited by the drone's sensors)].

OK, one last thing, about autosofts: They're mentioned in the books but it never lists their prices! An errata was released and their cost is Rating x 500ny and their availability is Rating x 2. This last bit is kind of a house rule but any drone that comes with a weapon mount also comes with a free Rating 3 Targeting autosoft for a single weapon (if it includes a weapon it's an autosoft for that weapon, otherwise it's for whichever weapon you first get for it). If you want to swap weapons or make the drone better at shooting you'll have to buy a brand-new autosoft for it at the above price. Phew!

There's also a lot of nifty upgrades in the Rigger 5.0 book. I'll help with more character suggestions and notes sometime soon, likely tomorrow.

Shayuri · Mar 24, 2016

Ah! I didn't realize he used his own Agility when remote piloting drones!

Sheesh, I need to learn when not to jump into rules discussions. (>_<)

Any word on a GM ruling for Resonance Veil?

TillForPie · Mar 24, 2016

And sorry, I'd completely missed your edit, Shayuri.

Shayuri said:
One question though. Reviewing Complex Forms, I'm not sure Transcendent Grid is a good choice, at least to start. To be fair, I'm fuzzy on how grids work, but something with more broad utility like Resonance Veil or Puppeteer would probably be a better starting purchase. And it'd give me more time to learn the system from experience.

What is your take on Resonance Veil, by the way? What can be done with it? What can't be? The description is very...open to interpretation.

[sblock=First up: Grids] The Matrix is a web on which hangs all the virtual representations of all wirelessly-broadcasting objects (which is 99.9% of things with any sort of electronic component built in the last 15 years). Objects don't just broadcast their signals into the void, they do it to a grid. So a grid is kind of like a slice of the web that is the Matrix. You can see an object on the web even if you're not in the same slice but you'll find it's easier to interact with it if you are.

There are three levels of grids: Public, local, and global.

Public grids can have a lot of sources but it's easiest to think of them as the barrens of the Matrix. Public grids are a slow, clogged, nauseating mess - all Matrix actions performed from the public grid provides a -2 penalty. The public grid is the default, free grid and it's the one you're assumed to be on unless stated otherwise.

Local grids cost money, but not a lot. A low lifestyle is assumed to include a local grid subscription - though you can also straight-up purchase one for a SIN that doesn't have a lifestyle. There's no penalty to being on a local grid but it's awash with advertising and it only works if you're accessing it from near its physical servers. New York's local grid is NYNet and it only works within the boroughs.

There are ten global grids, each run by one of the Big Ten. A subscription to one of these is included with a middle lifestyle or higher, though like with the local grid you can purchase one for a SIN. Wageslaves also typically have access to the grid of their parent company. There's no mechanical benefit to using one of these, but setting-wise they're much, much nicer than the local grid.

Remember that in order to access a grid subscription attached to a SIN you have to be using that SIN. So if you're using a SIN without a lifestyle or purchased grid subscription - or not using a SIN at all - you start out on the public grid. You can illegally access other grids (and in fact, you'll probably be doing this a lot!) using the grid hop action described on page 240 of the SR5 rulebook.

Why hop grids at all? Because if you're trying to access a device that's on a different grid you take a -2 penalty. This means if you're on a public grid and you're accessing devices on, say, a megacorp grid, you'll be taking a -4 penalty.

Hopping grids isn't too difficult but when you're using Transcendent Grid you don't have to worry about it at all. Read the rules on 240 so you can estimate for yourself how big of a benefit this power might be to you.[/sblock][sblock=Resonance Veil (and Puppeteer)]This is of course a potentially very powerful form and it's one of the things that has people sweating about technomancers in 2078. The only limit is your creativity (as well as potential game balance - but know that I'm not too worried as long as it won't bring the game crashing down). Remember that the target has to be a device (so no tricking a spider into thinking you've vanished) and that the illusion has to be about something that's happened in the Matrix (so no tricking a smart gun with user verification into thinking that it's not being held by its proper owner).

The best way to wrap your head around the power is to look at all the different Matrix actions that exist. So you could trick a commlink into thinking that a message (of your choosing) has been sent (or not sent). You could convince an IC program that you've exited its host. You could trick a device into thinking it's invited you to mark it. This is a power that's going to rely on you knowing how to game the system that the corps have set up.

This differs from puppeteer in which you're trying to force a device to actually attempt to perform an action. The applications are subtly different.[/sblock]

GlassEye · Mar 24, 2016

Shayuri said:
Sheesh, I need to learn when not to jump into rules discussions. (>_<)

Not at all! Every bit of advice is welcome.

ALL THE BRICKS - OOC

Shayuri

First Post

TillForPie

First Post

Shayuri

First Post

GlassEye

Adventurer

GlassEye

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Shayuri

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TillForPie

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Shayuri

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TillForPie

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GlassEye

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