D&D 5E The Blade Lock- A Mini Guide.

Yunru · Mar 15, 2016

Figured it out. You use a much darker and, dare I say, purpler blue for rating the Archfey vs. Everywhere else.

SouthpawSoldier · Mar 15, 2016

Why not consider a 2 level start as Paladin, then move into Bladelock? Delaying the Blade until 5th character level may be a slowdown, but since Warlock spells can power Paladin Smite, that enables a pool of additional damage d8's that recharges fully on short rests (especially nice since Warlock slots are always at highest level). Paladin gets Fighting Style, D10 HD, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies just like a Fighter.

Also, I think the MAD nature really depends on the build. There's lots of spells that don't offer saves, so a high CHA isn't a must. A DEX>CON>CHA build may be just as viable.

HEX is nice, but I've had it pointed out to me in my Sith-Bladelock thread (link) that using Concentration for Darkness, and the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo, is more beneficial.

Zardnaar · Mar 15, 2016

SouthpawSoldier said:
Why not consider a 2 level start as Paladin, then move into Bladelock? Delaying the Blade until 5th character level may be a slowdown, but since Warlock spells can power Paladin Smite, that enables a pool of additional damage d8's that recharges fully on short rests (especially nice since Warlock slots are always at highest level). Paladin gets Fighting Style, D10 HD, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies just like a Fighter.

Also, I think the MAD nature really depends on the build. There's lots of spells that don't offer saves, so a high CHA isn't a must. A DEX>CON>CHA build may be just as viable.

HEX is nice, but I've had it pointed out to me in my Sith-Bladelock thread (link) that using Concentration for Darkness, and the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo, is more beneficial.

Except you can screw up your own party members with that combo. The fighter grants proficiency in con saves and only requires 1 level. The Paladin does not and you will only have 2 spells per short rest to spend on smites anyway. Hex can overlap with your short rests so in effect it is an extra spell per short rest once you hit level 6 or so.

Yunru · Mar 15, 2016

Zardnaar said:
Not a bladelock but from what you are doing you may as well go Sorlock- warlock2/SorcererXYZ and blow the crap out of everything. Its not just damage either its tanking ability which the temporary hit point fiend pact lets you do. And extra 7-8 hit points whenever you kill something+armour of agathys makes you quite sticky.

Which is irrelevant because the proposed Tome'lock can also benefit from all of that.

RulesJD · Mar 15, 2016

Zardnaar said:
We always have other PCs who can buff anyone using GWM. Bless spell or advantage. We have the SCAG other groups may not. GWM also works when you kill something as well and you get to cleave so 2 or 3 attacks by level 6 is not that unusual.

Not a bladelock but from what you are doing you may as well go Sorlock- warlock2/SorcererXYZ and blow the crap out of everything. Its not just damage either its tanking ability which the temporary hit point fiend pact lets you do. And extra 7-8 hit points whenever you kill something+armour of agathys makes you quite sticky.

It actually is decently unusual to the point where using it to calculate into DPR for GWM is sort of silly.

But yes, other people can help you hit with GWM. That's why I just assumed both strikes hit. GFB is still sufficiently close in DPR. If you're really that worried, just pick up a level of Fighter/Paladin as this build is doing as a Tomelock, and use your Greatsword instead of the Quarterstaff Shillelagh.

Yunru · Mar 15, 2016

Also: Lifedrinker, meet Elemental Affinity.

Ovarwa · Mar 15, 2016

A problem not unique to this mini-guide, is that the discussion does not really deal with "why bother do this." I comment about *this* guide, because of the OP's leading sentence, that this build is one of the better gishes out there, even though there is nothing here beyond being adequate. (Never mind that this thread is a guide to a specific bladelock build, rather than a guide to The Blade Lock.) That said, your guide is far superior to mine!

Zardnaar · Mar 16, 2016

Ovarwa said:
A problem not unique to this mini-guide, is that the discussion does not really deal with "why bother do this." I comment about *this* guide, because of the OP's leading sentence, that this build is one of the better gishes out there, even though there is nothing here beyond being adequate. (Never mind that this thread is a guide to a specific bladelock build, rather than a guide to The Blade Lock.) That said, your guide is far superior to mine!

I have seen this build in play though and its not theory crafting and it doesn't have any drastic weaknesses such as "Is only good at level 12+" which is what some of the other guides and assumptions assume.

I assume you have to play from level 1, not just from 12+. I also assume you know how to get advantage if you are using GWM so having that potentially come online with 2 attacks and a potential cleave attack tends to add a lot of damage. Unless you are playing an all martials type party.

famousringo · Mar 16, 2016

RulesJD said:
That's not entirely accurate. For starts, if the GWM is getting a 3rd attack then the GFB is doubling its dice. Assuming best case scenario for both, a crit grants GWM a bonus attack at (2d6+20) damage, so another 27 damage on the 3rd swing. GFB on a crit doubles all dice, so at level 11 an additional (5d8) damage if you count the primary and secondary, so another 22.5 damage.

However, let's assume the average scenario, no crits. We'll assume both GWM strikes hit, which is a huge assumption due to the fact that Bladelocks have no way of increasing their to-hit chance.

1. GWM 2 hits = 4d6 (weapon) + 10 cha + 20 GWM + 6 STR (can't max Str and Cha by level 11, so I'll assume Cha, the math works the same) = 50 damage. One miss, and you're down to 25 damage.

2. GFB 1 hit on 2 targets = 1d8 (weapon) + 2d8 GFB (primary) + 5 cha (Shillelagh on primary) + 2d8 (secondary) + 5 cha (secondary) = 32.5 damage.

Past level 11, it only gets better for the Tomelock. Dip 6 into Draconic Sorc = at least an extra +5 damage, more likely +10 damage (+cha to primary and secondary fire damage). The Bladelock levels off for damage past 11 while the Tomelock just increases even more. Quickened castings of GFB = monstrously more damage when two targets are present.

Best part, the Tomelock doesn't need to stick straight Warlock. Advancing in any class increases their damage because cantrips scale with character level, not Warlock level. Hell, a level 5 Warlock/6 Draconic Sorc does an average of: 42.5 fire damage per turn with no resources (+10 damage from Draconic Sorc). Quicken that into 85 damage and fuel those Quickens with short rest rechargable 3rd level spell slots.

All while still wielding a shield, having access to the Shield spell MUCH sooner than a Bladelock, achieving that damage at character level 11, etc.

Be a variant Human to take Elemental Adapt to deal with the resistance issue and you've got a Warlock gish that just dominates compared to the Bladelock. The only way the Bladelock wins is early stages and if the player doesn't have access to SCAG cantrips.

Sadly, Elemental Affinity only adds +CHA to one damage roll per spell, so only +5 per GFB. Also the problem with GFB is that if there's no secondary target to cleave, you're down to only 18.5 damage in your scenario. Even a +5 from Elemental Affinity will leave you behind the GWM bladelock who misses once.

Also, GWM is doing 9.6 damage more than you estimate. 2.6 for Great Weapon Style and 7 for being able to put up Hex while your Tomelock is casting Shillelagh.

If we're talking DPR, worth looking at EK 7/Warlock X.

GFB plus War Magic = 4d6 (actually 16.6 avg damage due to GW style) + 10 Str + 4d8 GFB + 3 Cha = 47.6 damage (35.6 single target)

Above works with -5/+10 if you want to. War magic also combines well with Eldritch Blast, and EK gets you those great Wizard defensive buffs. Problem is that it puts a real cramp in your spell progression to get all those fighter levels.

Yunru · Mar 16, 2016

famousringo said:
If we're talking DPR, worth looking at EK 7/Warlock X.

If we're talking DPR, Paladin 2/Warlock 9/Paladin 11, no exceptions. It doesn't kill things, it overkills them.

Unless you consider a 5th level slot giving you 5d8 to not be a mistake, in which case Fighter 1/Paladin 2/Warlock 7/Paladin 11/Fighter 2, Fighter optional.

D&D 5E The Blade Lock- A Mini Guide.

Yunru

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SouthpawSoldier

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