Exotic Matter

Dannyalcatraz · Apr 3, 2016

Umbran said:
Neutronium - the stuff that neutron stars are made of, very likely exists (we have observed objects that have all the properties we'd expect a neutron star to have), but getting it? How? The stuff is down in a friggin' neutron star!

Well, first we launch an unobtanium skyscraper...

Umbran · Apr 3, 2016

Dannyalcatraz said:
Well, first we launch an unobtanium skyscraper...

Basically. The thing is, neutronium should only exist in the situation in which normal matter can't - where gravity is so strong that it compacts matter *so* much that electrons get crushed down into the atom's protons, and become neutrons. So, if you reach out to it with any normal matter, you're reaching into a place where that normal matter, by definition, cannot exist.

Dannyalcatraz · Apr 3, 2016

FWIW, Larry Niven gave me my intro to the exotic critters called neutron stars when i was a wee laddie.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_Star_(short_story)

freyar · Apr 4, 2016

Umbran said:
It is not *strictly* a placeholder. There are examples of things that we are pretty sure exist, but just aren't like the normal matter that makes up your dinner table. And it isn't usually so much that you put a placeholder value in to make an equation work - that's just making crap up.

In some instances, the exotic matter has never directly observed the material, but *everything* we know and observe says it should exist (neutronium, degenerate matter). In others, it is the most reasonable physical interpretation that best describes what we see in the universe (Dark Matter and Dark Energy, f'rex). And in yet other instances, it is a result of asking, "Assume this effect occurs. What does that imply?" If the effect doesn't actually happen, then the material probably doesn't exist. This is the wormhole-exotic matter case. This last is the more speculative.

Well, in most cases, you are positing the existence of a material to fit a very particular problem. In such cases, you are fairly restricted in terms of what properties the stuff can have and still be consistent with what we do know. Dark Matter, for example - if it interacts by means other than gravity and perhaps the weak nuclear force, it won't fit what we observe in the universe.

If you want ot create complete fiction, and posit a material with arbitrary properties, that's fine, but this solves no problems.

Well, individual particles do not have "color" in the visual sense, nor texture. These are properties of matter in bulk, often dependent on how the material comes to be - carbon can be opaque grey graphite powder, or clear solid diamond, for example.

Yes, all this. I'd also add that magnetic fields have normal gravity, so there's no reason your fictional exotic matter can't both have antigravity and magnetic properties, but the magnetic properties can't be the cause of the antigravity.

Scott DeWar · Apr 4, 2016

Have they discovered if there is a particular particle that creates magnetism? or is it the movement of the electron around the nucleus and being stronger with certain combinations of electron/proton/neutron combinations?

freyar · Apr 4, 2016

Scott DeWar said:
Have they discovered if there is a particular particle that creates magnetism? or is it the movement of the electron around the nucleus and being stronger with certain combinations of electron/proton/neutron combinations?

Photons --- particles of light --- are what carry the electromagnetic force. So, like electric fields, we can say magnetic fields are composed of many photons (that's a really loose way of putting things). Now, if you're asking why certain materials are magnetic, it mostly does have to do with the electrons, namely their spins and/or orbits, which cause each atom or ion to act like a miniature magnet. Certain materials, like iron, have magnetic properties because there are small interactions between the atoms/ions that make those miniature magnets preferably align, so they add up into a big magnet. There are also materials where the miniature magnets like to anti-align, and those materials tend to suppress, rather than create, magnetic fields.

Scott DeWar · Apr 4, 2016

I am sorry for hijacking the thread but I have another question:

So, if you are 100 feet below the magnetic southpole ground level, and the compass you are testing spins because you are at the magnetic south pole, You are looking at the result of photons from the sun creating that field, even though you are 100 feet below ground?

freyar · Apr 4, 2016

Scott DeWar said:
I am sorry for hijacking the thread but I have another question:

So, if you are 100 feet below the magnetic southpole ground level, and the compass you are testing spins because you are at the magnetic south pole, You are looking at the result of photons from the sun creating that field, even though you are 100 feet below ground?

Actually, if you're looking at the effect on a compass, that's due to photons from the earth since it's the earth's magnetic field. Also, that magnetic field isn't a freely-traveling wave, so, if you want to think of it as made of photons, you might want to think of it as "long-range virtual photons." Basically, these aren't photons that can just fly off and go somewhere on their own but make up a large scale field that particles like electrons feel. (The problematic issue in translating the math is that the magnetic field isn't really made up of a fixed number of photons at all; this is one of those weird quantum things.)

Scott DeWar · Apr 5, 2016

freyar said:
Actually, if you're looking at the effect on a compass, that's due to photons from the earth since it's the earth's magnetic field. Also, that magnetic field isn't a freely-traveling wave, so, if you want to think of it as made of photons, you might want to think of it as "long-range virtual photons." Basically, these aren't photons that can just fly off and go somewhere on their own but make up a large scale field that particles like electrons feel. (The problematic issue in translating the math is that the magnetic field isn't really made up of a fixed number of photons at all; this is one of those weird quantum things.)

I am going to have to sit here and dwell on this for a bit. Thank you for the information, I will, In most likelihood, ask more on this.

I asked about magnetic field particle theory as I wondered about the possibility that something like anti photons, or some other heretofore unknown magnetic field producing matter, are what is needed to be seen as the exotic material.

And you thought I was just going down a rabbit trail! HA!

Umbran · Apr 5, 2016

Scott DeWar said:
I asked about magnetic field particle theory as I wondered about the possibility that something like anti photons

Photons are their own anti-particle.

When an electron and a positron (aka an anti-electron) collide, they annihilate and release energy.

When a photon and another photon of the same energy collide, they annihilate, and release energy.