Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Oh dear...)

horacethegrey · Mar 23, 2016

Currently at 39% at Rotten Tomatoes.

Some choice quotes from critics:

Todd McCarthy, Hollywood Reporter

The film may be imposing, but it's not fun.

Rene Rodriguez, Miami Herald

In Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, the Dark Knight and the Man of Steel duke it out and the audience loses.

Joshua Rothkopf, Time Out

If there's any justice, dawning or otherwise, at the multiplex, audiences will reject Zack Snyder's lumbering, dead-on-arrival superhero mélange, a $250 million tombstone for a genre in dire need of a break.

Jim Vejvoda, IGN

BvS is carried by a brutal Batfleck, but as a whole it offers more philosophical drama than superhero escapism.

The Guardian, Andrew Pulver

It’s tough to take all the hardcore emoting seriously, particularly as the emotional heavy lifting is designed to be done by the occasional maudlin line in brief pauses between the explosions. For a film so concerned with its characters’ inner lives, there’s a fundamental disconnect going on here – enough to make you yearn for the lighter touch of the Marvel films.

Scott Mendelson, Forbes

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a treat for the eyes, but it will hurt your brain and break your heart.

Robbie Collin, Telegraph

Marvel can rest easy. Zack Synder's superhero showdown is a meatheaded, humourless mess that makes little sense and squanders its cast - especially the women

William Bibbiani, CraveOnline

This film has turned all of its great characters into perfunctory plot points, in the service of a plot that doesn't even work well.

Sean O'Connell, CinemaBlend

An improvement over Man of Steel, and a much better Batman movie than it is a Superman film. The highlights far outweigh the issues, and DC now has a base on which it can build its empire.

Oscar Uriel, Cinema Movil

The film is a discordant and almost three hour experience. There are some good and bad things, but still better than Man of Steel.

Uriel Barco, Garuyo

Not only is this a big let down in every sense, it makes you wonder if the rest of the DC Comics films will have the same fate.

Chris Nashawaty
Entertainment Weekly

It's another numbing smash-and-bash orgy of CGI mayhem with an ending that leaves the door open wide enough to justify the next 10 installments. Is it too late to demand a rematch?

Will someone please stop giving Zack Snyder any more work? Particularly with comic book movies?

MechaPilot · Mar 23, 2016

RT can suck it. Critics, from my perspective, get films right less than 33% of the time.

Also, I've seen one reviewer compare BvS' quality to Kubrick's work.

Additionally, I think a lot of the critics were expecting the usual superhero fare and didn't know what to do when they got something different set on their plate.

Edit: It's at 9.1/10 on IMDB. In other words, don't let critics think for you, because they have no idea what you actually might like.

horacethegrey · Mar 23, 2016

MechaPilot said:
Also, I've seen one reviewer compare BvS' quality to Kubrick's work.

*snort* Really? Oh man I should read this. Because Kubrick is last director I'd compare Snyder to. LOL

MechaPilot said:
Edit: It's at 9.1/10 on IMDB. In other words, don't let critics think for you, because they have no idea what you actually might like.

I could also say one should not let an IMDB score sway on whether a movie is good or not. Most of those who scored it that high are probably diehard DC Comics fanboys who want to prop up it's score. And IMDB is one of the worst places to peruse and discuss movies.

I've been watching movies a long time, and I find move critics are invaluable in determining whether a movie is worth my time. Some of best ones have tastes and opinions that are in line with mine, so I always look up their reviews on a movie I want to see. Of course they get it wrong from time to time, but for the most part they're on the money for the most part.

MechaPilot · Mar 23, 2016

horacethegrey said:
I could also say one should not let an IMDB score sway on whether a movie is good or not.

I'm not relying on any score. No score should sway you: you should watch the film (or read the book, or view the painting, etc as it pertains to any consumption of art), take the time to digest it and form your own opinion, and then take in the opinions of others and evaluate those opinions to see if they reveal anything for you. But you absolutely should never let anyone else's opinion override your own opinion of a film, or any other piece of art.

horacethegrey said:
Most of those who scored it that high are probably diehard DC Comics fanboys who want to prop up it's score. And IMDB is one of the worst places to peruse and discuss movies.

And most of those critics on RT are probably DC haters. See, I could make up motivations for people that I don't know too, if I were motivated to do so; it doesn't make for a valid argument though. Like it or not, we have different places recording opinions on this film, and they came up with different results. Surprise, surprise, there's no objective standard for evaluating art.

horacethegrey said:
I've been watching movies a long time, and I find move critics are invaluable in determining whether a movie is worth my time.

I have also been watching movies for a long time, and I have found critics to be a waste of time and ink (digital or otherwise): I can tell from a trailer whether or not I want to watch a film in theaters or if I'm going to wait for the TV or DVD release.

horacethegrey said:
Some of best ones have tastes and opinions that are in line with mine, so I always look up their reviews on a movie I want to see.

You probably didn't mean it that way, but that statement has a kind of "people who can evaluate movies really well usually agree with me" vibe to it, as if you were pridefully holding up agreeing with your tastes as a sign that critics are doing their job well.

Edit: RT also has Kingdom of the Crystal Skull at 78%. Stuff like that always makes me glad that i put no stock in critics.

horacethegrey · Mar 23, 2016

MechaPilot said:
I'm not relying on any score. No score should sway you: you should watch the film (or read the book, or view the painting, etc as it pertains to any consumption of art), take the time to digest it and form your own opinion, and then take in the opinions of others and evaluate those opinions to see if they reveal anything for you. But you absolutely should never let anyone else's opinion override your own opinion of a film, or any other piece of art.

MechaPilot said:
You probably didn't mean it that way, but that statement has a kind of "people who can evaluate movies really well usually agree with me" vibe to it, as if you were pridefully holding up agreeing with your tastes as a sign that critics are doing their job well.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say I was letting critics opinion of a film override my own? Are you implying that I'm some kind of slave to what movie critics post in their reviews? If I did that, I probably wouldn't have bothered watching any of Marvel Cinematic Universe films because some critics I followed intensely disliked them.

Roger Ebert is one of them, and I think he was pretty good. But he absolutely hated Thor, which I consider one of my favorite MCU movies. AO Scott of the New York Times is another one. I like his reviews, but I intensely disliked his campaign to s**t on every MCU movie just because he didn't like the idea of a Cinematic Universe. Owen Gleiberman of Entertainment Weekly is my favorite movie critic of all time, and he absolutely hated O Brother, Where Art Thou?, my favorite movie by the Coen Brothers.

So yeah, those are three occasions where critics I followed absoluytely disagreed with my taste. Still think I'm some mindless drone that blindingly follows them? And yeah, I do think they're good at their jobs, but there are occasions where they massively drop the ball. As is the case with the examples I posted above.

I rely on movie reviews to see whether a movie is worth my time. For the record though, I plan to watch BvS: Dawn of Justice in the theater, but out of curiosity rather than any genuine excitement.

MechaPilot · Mar 23, 2016

horacethegrey said:
Now you're putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say I was letting critics opinion of a film override my own? Are you implying that I'm some kind of slave to what movie critics post in their reviews? If I did that, I probably wouldn't have bothered watching any of Marvel Cinematic Universe films because some critics I followed intensely disliked them.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I was merely expressing my opinion on how people should treat critics' reviews of art: I thought that was relevant to the topic at hand since you quoted a bunch of critics in the OP. Also, the later part of my preceding post (at least, I thought) made it clear that your statements left me with the opposite impression: that you were not a slave to critics, but rather that you thought that only the ones who agreed with your opinion were any good.

horacethegrey said:
Roger Ebert is one of them, and I think he was pretty good. But he absolutely hated Thor, which I consider one of my favorite MCU movies. AO Scott of the New York Times is another one. I like his reviews, but I intensely disliked his campaign to s**t on every MCU movie just because he didn't like the idea of a Cinematic Universe. Owen Gleiberman of Entertainment Weekly is my favorite movie critic of all time, and he absolutely hated O Brother, Where Art Thou?, my favorite movie by the Coen Brothers.

I also like O Brother Where Art Thou. It's one of my favorite musical films, right up there with Little Shop of Horrors.

horacethegrey said:
I rely on movie reviews to see whether a movie is worth my time. For the record though, I plan to watch BvS: Dawn of Justice in the theater, but out of curiosity rather than any genuine excitement.

I've never been able to find critics who reliably line up with my tastes, so critical reviews to me are entirely worthless in helping me decide whether to see or not see a movie. For me, critic's reviews are only good for exposing me to an alternate perspective on a film.

horacethegrey · Mar 23, 2016

MechaPilot said:
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I was merely expressing my opinion on how people should treat critics' reviews of art: I thought that was relevant to the topic at hand since you quoted a bunch of critics in the OP.

I posted those quotes just to show what an absolute beating this movie is getting from the mainstream press.

And for the record, I didn't do this to s**t on this film. I actually wanted this film to be good, because I want it to be a success so that DC's Extended Universe can be a thing and give the MCU some competition. But given that Zack Snyder is at the helm, I guess I was asking for too much. I hated Man of Steel, and I really wished Warner Bros hadn't brought him back for this.

*sighs* I guess we'll just wait and see if David Ayer's Suicide Squad does better. It'd be heartbreaking for DC Warner to have 2 critical duds in the same year.

FrogReaver · Mar 23, 2016

How do you know the film is not good?

MechaPilot · Mar 23, 2016

horacethegrey said:
And for the record, I didn't do this to s**t on this film. I actually wanted this film to be good, because I want it to be a success so that DC's Extended Universe can be a thing and give the MCU some competition. But given that Zack Snyder is at the helm, I guess I was asking for too much. I hated Man of Steel, and I really wished Warner Bros hadn't brought him back for this.

I don't get the Snyder hate. I liked Watchmen and 300 (they weren't masterpieces, but they were enjoyable) and I love Man of Steel. I've never seen Sucker Punch though, and I don't really know what else he's done. But, of the stuff that I know that he's done and that I've seen, I like or love all of it.

I will point out that the DCCU and the MCU are not and will not be competing. Plenty of fans like some heroes from both companies. The companies both just want money, and to do that they have to make films that entice a lot of people to see them. Films don't even need to be good to be a franchise-launching success: look at the Transformers franchise for proof of that.

horacethegrey said:
*sighs* I guess we'll just wait and see if David Ayer's Suicide Squad does better. It'd be heartbreaking for DC Warner to have 2 critical duds in the same year.

Well, first we have to wait to see if there's even one dud. I can't speak to whether not not Suicide Squad will be better than BvS, but I have seen nothing about Suicide Squad that would make me doubt it's quality.