Multiclass Vengence Paladin for Curse of Strahd or no?

thecasualoblivion · Apr 1, 2016

Just joined a table starting out Curse of Strahd, which goes over levels 1-10. I built a Vengence Paladin at level 1, and am kind of torn whether to multiclass into Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer and go for more smites, or to stay in Paladin for Misty Step and Haste.

I'm torn.

Kithas · Apr 1, 2016

thecasualoblivion said:
Just joined a table starting out Curse of Strahd, which goes over levels 1-10. I built a Vengence Paladin at level 1, and am kind of torn whether to multiclass into Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer and go for more smites, or to stay in Paladin for Misty Step and Haste.

I'm torn.

If you go far enough bard, warlock and sorc all get misty step and sorc/bard get haste. Personally i would advise getting to level 3pal before mc'ing after that grab greenflameblade or booming blade and you dont really need paladin anymore.

thecasualoblivion · Apr 1, 2016

Kithas said:
If you go far enough bard, warlock and sorc all get misty step and sorc/bard get haste. Personally i would advise getting to level 3pal before mc'ing after that grab greenflameblade or booming blade and you dont really need paladin anymore.

If I go Paladin 3, in a game ending at level 10 that means only one ABI. Sorc seems like the best choice as it's the only one of those classes that gets all 3(Misty Step, Haste, and Booming Blade) by level 10. Warlock doesn't get Haste, and Bard doesn't get Misty Step at all in the level range and doesn't get Booming Blade until Bard level 6? It'd be also tricky to juggle 3 classes, especially if I still want Haste. I could get all three with Paladin 2, Warlock 3 and Bard 5.

Kithas · Apr 1, 2016

thecasualoblivion said:
If I go Paladin 3, in a game ending at level 10 that means only one ABI. Sorc seems like the best choice as it's the only one of those classes that gets all 3(Misty Step, Haste, and Booming Blade) by level 10. Warlock doesn't get Haste, and Bard doesn't get Misty Step at all in the level range and doesn't get Booming Blade until Bard level 6? It'd be also tricky to juggle 3 classes, especially if I still want Haste. I could get all three with Paladin 2, Warlock 3 and Bard 5.

Sorc would definitely be my pick if you go 4/6 you get 2asi's.
If youre going dex paladin they get great armor too. Even if not the +1hp is really nice. Dragon sorc would be my suggestion.

thecasualoblivion · Apr 1, 2016

Kithas said:
Sorc would definitely be my pick if you go 4/6 you get 2asi's.
If youre going dex paladin they get great armor too. Even if not the +1hp is really nice. Dragon sorc would be my suggestion.

I'm still not 100% on Multiclassing. I can make up for the loss of the second attack with Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade to some extent, but the major loss is Great Weapon Mastery. Great Weapon Mastery and the second attack go together, and I don't think I want one without the other. It's basically trying to decide between GWM or more smite.

GrumpyGamer · Apr 1, 2016

For a Vengeance Paladin maybe... 3 levels of Paladin followed by caster class (Bard for 2 attacks after 6 levels of Valor Bard - 9th Level Total). You could finish off 4 Paladin / 6 Bard.

For either of the other two Paladins I would think the 6th and 7th level auras are too powerful not to have. If you did multi-class I would look at 8 Paladin / 2 Other class - likely bard or Sorcerer for stacking caster levels (recommend Sorcerer for shield spell). While the Warlock short recharge on spell slots can be fun, the higher level smites from a stacking caster level class will be similar in power and Shield is too good to pass up if you need to avoid being hit.

10 levels of Paladin is also not a bad option as it gives you another aura; and as I said auras are really really good.

LightningArrow · Apr 1, 2016

Mechanically I'd go with Sorcerer: Quicken Spell makes you a behemoth. You can, for instance, caste Haste and attack on the same turn, or use an attack cantrip and using the Attack action altogether. Assuming you multiclass at level 3, you can attack twice using this trick at level 6, and three times at level 8.

Thematically it depends on your backstory and the DM's help, but it's hard to imagine a guy discovering innate magic at level 5 or something.

RulesJD · Apr 1, 2016

You are a GWM Paladin, so ignore those people telling you to MC before level 5.

You want to go to Paladin level 6. If you are V Human, then grab GWM as your feat and go to Paladin 6. Boost either Str or Cha, your call whether you want to be more tanky, or more offensive.

Then go either Warlock 2/Sorc 2, or Sorc 4. I'm not sure how common the short rest/long rest is at your table, that would sort of decide which I'd go. You want at least 1 Sorc to get Shield spell. I recommend going Wild Magic Sorc because Tides of Chaos is amazing, as are almost all of the surges.

The only thing you miss out on with this build is the Haste spell. It's a great spell, but without proficiency in Con saves you're going to fail your Concentration Save and then be stunned for a round (so many people forget that). But you'll end up with a healthy amount of slots for Smites and Blesses for your GWM. You'll get both of your ASIs. If you want Haste that bad, then go Paladin 9, Sorc 1 for Shield/Tides of Chaos/Surges.

Blue · Apr 1, 2016

Haste is a 3rd level spell, which means with Pal 4 you're looking at 9th character level to learn it. With 1-10, you'll almost never have it, not sure that's worth optimizing for. Especially since with divine smite being melee you'll probably be getting hit (with DCs over 10 from CR 9 creatures) so it will be hard to maintain. I wouldn't prioritize Haste as a goal to shoot for.

Pal 4/Caster 6 vs. Pal 10 has three extra caster levels. The highest level slots you won't know any spells for but you can upcast, so if you go that route I'd look for spells that scale well when upcast. Divine Smite doesn't scale well, it's better with lower level spells. That does give Sorcerer a real boost because you can break up spells into sorcerer points and recombine them into lower level spells. In addition Quicken metamagic works poorly for a pure caster but nicely for a weapon attacker / caster. And if you insist on Haste, Twin will help an ally as well. One care is that paladin M & S+M components can be done with a hand on a shield with a Holy Symbol (read in the equipment chapter) but that doesn't give you a free out for casting Sorc spells. Two Handed weapon works either way.

Alternately to Pal 4/Caster X, Pal 10 has a lot going for it:

5th has extra attack. While the SCAG cantrips are nice, if you want to be able to nova you need to be able to hit with more attacks per round so you can smite more.

6th is +CHR to all saves for you and any allies within 10'. I would consider Ravenloft a save-heavy place.

9th you get Haste anyway on the Oath of Vengeance - same character level you'd get it with a Pal 4/Sorc 5.

There's a few other, but those are the biggies.

Kithas · Apr 1, 2016

Ah didnt realize you where doing a great weapon path. Gwm as a feat in general isnt very good, the bonus action swing is rare at best, and doesnt comba well with your smite spells. The -5+10 is unreliable at best and because of your smites any fight where this is useful you will not need the extra advantage. I'd say skip it and grab warcaster BB as a reaction and adv on your concentration saves is massive. Booming blade will actually out-damage extra attack usually and especially after level 5.
-math-
2d6+3+1d8=15.5
Lvl3 with gwf
2d6+3+2d8=20
Lvl5
-vs
2d6+3=11
4d6+6=22
A difference of 2 damage after extra attack if they stay adjacent, if they move add 4.5-9 damage.

Also you get to do some silly nova turns with a bit of setup. Turn before after you swing cast thunderous smite, then quicken a booming blade as a bonus actian and cast another one as normal. Youll have to move for the second one but youll do 6d6+4d8s+3 in one turn and if they move add 4d8. Because of the enemy control it gives you booming blade is far better than extra attack.