To err is human, to REALLY screw things up requires a computer

Dannyalcatraz · Apr 3, 2016

I'm currently living in computer hell.

Short version: Verizon sold off its Internet, etc. to Frontier/AOL, and right now, I can't access 50%+ of my email, data in certain apps, calendars, contacts, etc. They say they're aware of the problem, and it may take another 24-48 hours to rectify. Seeing as how I lost some- thankfully, eventually replaceable- info when Verizon ended its affair with Yahoo, I am NOT confident.

tuxgeo · Apr 3, 2016

"Put all your data in The Cloud, not on your own machine. Look at all the problems that solves!"

(Sorry. I woke up a little bit grumpy this morning.)

Janx · Apr 3, 2016

tuxgeo said:
"Put all your data in The Cloud, not on your own machine. Look at all the problems that solves!"

(Sorry. I woke up a little bit grumpy this morning.)

That depends. the big problem I warn my friends of is NEVER use your ISP's free email accounts. So Danny@Verizon.com (for example), means that when Danny fires Verizon, he is in a bind.

I advise folks to use hotmail.com (now outlook.com, but the old addresses still work) or gmail.com, and generally favor gmail.com because it supports IMAP.

IMAP means you can use your own mail client like Outlook, and the email stays on the server. POP mail, moves your data from the server to your client, which means you lose your client, you lose your email.

Obviously, my method puts all my eggs in one Google shaped basket. But the probability of gmail dying on me seems lower than me changing out my client or switching ISPs.

It's been working out for me since Gmail started...

Dannyalcatraz · Apr 3, 2016

These particular Verizon accounts kinda predate the rise of Google as a thing. And- thankfully- the rise of Google as a thing is part of why I still have anything right now. I have 4 email addresses- 2 from each of the aforenamed companies.

While I had been in the priests of swapping over stuff to be linked to the gmail accounts or not being on the cloud at all, I obviously didn't get all of it.

Ryujin · Apr 3, 2016

Janx said:
That depends. the big problem I warn my friends of is NEVER use your ISP's free email accounts. So Danny@Verizon.com (for example), means that when Danny fires Verizon, he is in a bind.

I advise folks to use hotmail.com (now outlook.com, but the old addresses still work) or gmail.com, and generally favor gmail.com because it supports IMAP.

IMAP means you can use your own mail client like Outlook, and the email stays on the server. POP mail, moves your data from the server to your client, which means you lose your client, you lose your email.

Obviously, my method puts all my eggs in one Google shaped basket. But the probability of gmail dying on me seems lower than me changing out my client or switching ISPs.

It's been working out for me since Gmail started...

Which creates a whole other set of possible issues. Recently Outlook.com decided to drop support for Windows Live Mail. I've been using it for years. They sent out a message saying that in order to continue using Live Mail you had to install a patch, which I did. Since then I've noticed that the mail folders on three systems I use, two with Live Mail and one With Outlook 2016, are not synchronized.

*EDIT* It seems that the patch was to add a protocol, so that they could retire the one that they've been using for Hotmail/Outlook.com accounts. They've taken two shots at it and screwed them both up.

Scott DeWar · Apr 4, 2016

I have both a gmail and a hotmail address.

Also, I use to say in the '90s, AOL means "America Off Line".

I am always a bit grumpy before coffee.

Janx · Apr 4, 2016

Dannyalcatraz said:
These particular Verizon accounts kinda predate the rise of Google as a thing. And- thankfully- the rise of Google as a thing is part of why I still have anything right now. I have 4 email addresses- 2 from each of the aforenamed companies.

While I had been in the priests of swapping over stuff to be linked to the gmail accounts or not being on the cloud at all, I obviously didn't get all of it.

One part of my conversion pitch to people is that you can use gmail to POP-move mail off their other accounts. Which means they don't have to go away, you just stop using them directly and all your email is really in gmail.

Obviously, if one doesn't trust Google, or if they go down, etc...

I look at outage risk like how my business runs its own Exchange server as a VM in 3 node hosting cluster. That costs us a crap-ton in hardware to replace every few years. And technically, Exchange wants to be configured in 3 tiers and duplicated, so that's 6 virtual machine servers to run email. We have a bad outage about once a year due to something going wrong.

Or I could just pay Microsoft or Google to do host email. Odds are good they are going to stay up and running more often, and with more redundancy and load balancing, etc than we could do ourselves.

Now normal people aren't making that kind of IT level decision. But when they simper about "oh, Microsoft could go down", they don't know jack taco about going down.

Ryujin · Apr 4, 2016

Janx said:
One part of my conversion pitch to people is that you can use gmail to POP-move mail off their other accounts. Which means they don't have to go away, you just stop using them directly and all your email is really in gmail.

Obviously, if one doesn't trust Google, or if they go down, etc...

I look at outage risk like how my business runs its own Exchange server as a VM in 3 node hosting cluster. That costs us a crap-ton in hardware to replace every few years. And technically, Exchange wants to be configured in 3 tiers and duplicated, so that's 6 virtual machine servers to run email. We have a bad outage about once a year due to something going wrong.

Or I could just pay Microsoft or Google to do host email. Odds are good they are going to stay up and running more often, and with more redundancy and load balancing, etc than we could do ourselves.

Now normal people aren't making that kind of IT level decision. But when they simper about "oh, Microsoft could go down", they don't know jack taco about going down.

That's part of why the university I work for went to Google to host our mail; high availability. They have their issues too but, by and large, when we need them they're there.

Istbor · Apr 4, 2016

Janx said:
That depends. the big problem I warn my friends of is NEVER use your ISP's free email accounts. So Danny@Verizon.com (for example), means that when Danny fires Verizon, he is in a bind.

I advise folks to use hotmail.com (now outlook.com, but the old addresses still work) or gmail.com, and generally favor gmail.com because it supports IMAP.

IMAP means you can use your own mail client like Outlook, and the email stays on the server. POP mail, moves your data from the server to your client, which means you lose your client, you lose your email.

Obviously, my method puts all my eggs in one Google shaped basket. But the probability of gmail dying on me seems lower than me changing out my client or switching ISPs.

It's been working out for me since Gmail started...

Setting it to POP does not necessarily mean you lose your client side email it is gone from the server. You only need to set it so copies are made and remain on the server, and as well you can make it so deleting anything from the client side, only deletes it from the pulled down email. Those options can differ from one client's offerings to another however.

IMAP, is or at least was, much more friendly on mobile devices due to how it synced and access email. It should be sufficient for any client software now.

As well, if there is email that you (general you) possess that is world ending should it be lost, keeping it only in one location is not the safest course.

Janx · Apr 4, 2016

Istbor said:
Setting it to POP does not necessarily mean you lose your client side email it is gone from the server. You only need to set it so copies are made and remain on the server, and as well you can make it so deleting anything from the client side, only deletes it from the pulled down email. Those options can differ from one client's offerings to another however.

IMAP, is or at least was, much more friendly on mobile devices due to how it synced and access email. It should be sufficient for any client software now.

As well, if there is email that you (general you) possess that is world ending should it be lost, keeping it only in one location is not the safest course.

POP-copy is its own mess of a solution as now your mail is staying on a server that wants it gone (anybody offering POP expects you to suck it down and remove it, barring Hotmail). It also creates the "I deleted this" mess as the email is still on the server.

This is what IMAP solves intrinsically with the fact that you are managing your email remotely to a single definitive master. This is what web based mail clients basically solved by setting the user to managing their mail directly, rather than a copy

I also trust that my one copy of a critical email on Google is actually replicated across the planet on their servers. As opposed to email on my Exchange Server which I know is not replicated at all, except to a backup that I hope ran.

But hey, that's how I do my personal email. It works for me. It has survived many PC and iPhone upgrades without having to transfer emails from old to new machine. I have never been impacted by a Google outage or lost any emails.

To err is human, to REALLY screw things up requires a computer

Dannyalcatraz

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tuxgeo

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Janx

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Dannyalcatraz

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Ryujin

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Scott DeWar

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Janx

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Ryujin

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Istbor

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Janx

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