First legal 3rd party AL material announced

Steve_MND said:

• I don't like the idea of outsourcing stuff (or pulling in external content, however you wish to refer to it). Part of what I see as a problem with some of the declared-campaign-legal elements -- such as the Hardbacks -- is that they are written and designed by people external from the needs and requirements of an OP-style campaign. In a proper OP-style campaign, I feel that the people running it need to be in complete review and have the final say-so on anything legal in it.

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All of these adventures are being written specifically for this OP campaign. The authors and organizers are sending outlines to the admins, who edit/adjust them and then approve. The adventures are also sent to the admins who read/comment/approve or reject them. They are not separate, we just getting more people helping with putting out additional content

Steve_MND said:

• While I'm sure they are all personally nice folks, my experiences with Baldman's at last year's GenCon has left a sour taste in my mouth, and thusly I am somewhat skeptical of their ability to handle something like this. What other scenarios, modules, hardbacks, etc., have they written for organized play campaigns?

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The people involved in this ran and or write regularly for Living Greyhawk, Living Forgotten and Ashes of Athas; basically the previous two decades of OP for WOTC. What they do still has to get passed the Admins as additional gatekeepers.

Steve_MND said:

• There has been, IMHO, a gradual eroding of "organized" in the AL "Organized Play" as the seasons progress, and this just seems to me to be further extending that lack of focus in the campaign. Despite AL originally being set around the Moonsea, as time goes on, the AL campaign seems to be splintering away from a cohesive Moonsea campaign, and instead venturing into a multiheaded beast that dives head-first into whatever new product is out from WotC this quarter. W

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Interestingly that is a position that is definitely in the minority of feedback we get. In general w hear from more people who want to get more content, so this will help address that. Also, the Moonsea adventure by BMG are actually to help firm up a cohesive story, which is why they are all trilogies and will often include special events that where the actions of the PCs affect the release of a later trilogy. It seems likely that if you only want more of the same and to not use new content, then its likely you will be unhappy with AL overall, but that's okay. There is no right way to play.

skerritthegreen said:

Interestingly that is a position that is definitely in the minority of feedback we get.

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As mentioned previously, I'm sure I'm in the minority here.

skerritthegreen said:

It seems likely that if you only want more of the same and to not use new content, then its likely you will be unhappy with AL overall, but that's okay.

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On the contrary, I very much would love more content, and would very much NOT like more of the same -- I want diversity, and new stuff, and all that jazz. But if I want to play in the Forgotten Realms, I would prefer to play in a Forgotten Realms Campaign, with lots of specific ongoing Forgotten Realms content and adventures. And if I want to play in Ravenloft, I would prefer to play in a specific Ravenloft Campaign, with lots of ongoing Ravenloft content and adventures. Same thing if I want to play in an Athas Campaign, or a Spelljammer Campaign, or a Greyhawk Campaign.

I'm fine with all of those things. What I am not a big fan of, however, is playing a high-fantasy Forgotten Realms Campaign today, only to have it morph into a gothic-horror Ravenloft Campaign tomorrow, and then into a low-magic Athas Campaign or a sci-fantasy Spelljammer Campaign or whatever the next day... especially not when that is only because that happens to be the Marketing Flavor of the Week being promoted by WotC. I've seen that road travelled before, and I'm not a fan of the destination.

The very fact that Baldman sounds like it is being used to 'shore up' the Moonsea region as far as content is concerned implies that that will be needed because we are going to see the rest of the seasons drifting farther and farther from that once-core focus of the campaign. Again, I'm all for different content, just that I'd personally prefer to see that sort of content run as separate entities, and not all shoehorned into a single box that's nowhere big enough for it all.

And yes, I'm aware that, over time, the AL campaign has been moving farther and farther than what I had expected it to be back when it was first announced. Growth is of course good, and I'm sure many think that is the correct way to grow the brand and campaign; I just happen to disagree with that assertion. I'm also aware that eventually, at the rate it's going, AL will have become so thinly spread out in terms of focus that I will lose interest in it altogether, but until that time, I'll just adjust my playstyles accordingly. As it is, I've stopped playing AL in Season 4 and am instead just running those mods for my group, because I have no interest in playing in a Ravenloft campaign. I wanted to play in a Forgotten Realms campaign.

But hey, you asked me to elaborate on my concerns, so there you have it, for good or ill.

Interestingly that is a position that is definitely in the minority of feedback we get. In general w hear from more people who want to get more content, so this will help address that. Also, the Moonsea adventure by BMG are actually to help firm up a cohesive story, which is why they are all trilogies and will often include special events that where the actions of the PCs affect the release of a later trilogy. It seems likely that if you only want more of the same and to not use new content, then its likely you will be unhappy with AL overall, but that's okay. There is no right way to play.

This is definitely my case. I love that the Moonsea and AL in general is starting to get its' own unique narrative going, independent (though undoubtedly associated where possible) of whatever hardcover WOTC may be developing. This helps bind our characters' into events whether we're playing at home, FLGS or con. I think this is a great boon for AL in general, especially since 'AL-legal' content will likely continue to be created with overall narrative progress in mind.

I was at GenCon both last year and the year prior. Baldman fell flat last year with GenCon but they did an admirable job owning it. The biggest complaint was that the events were too large (too loud specifically) for the space and couldn't be administrated properly. The results were late games, not being able to hear your DM, Epics having problems, etc.

Baldman moved the games to a nearby hotel to control the environment better - a fantastic decision. They also did their best to compensate people for the troubles if they were VIP or all-access.

I am optimistic regarding the new announcements - they have done a good job running AL type environments and this should give them additional tools to make things even better.

Fred

First in regards to last year, Baldman provided what they considered a great experience. When it wasnt considered as such by a variant number of people, they Im guessing went to WOTC to see what compensation WOTC could provide to those who thought the experience wasnt up to snuff. Now at the time WOTC might of decided to say 'We get you to organise this stuff.. just get it done', and Baldman might not of been able to placate that clientele. WOTC obviously did the write thing in this respect.

Look at how big American conventions work though. The aim is to pack as many tables , seat to seat into one large cavernous room. Thats not conducive to good gaming. Its conducive to having to fight for space, to having to raise your voice .. and that not taking into account the gamers amongst us who have mobility issues (ie canes/wheelchairs). Use of noise blockers (those big divider things you see in primary schools) work great. Sure you would need a lot of them for a lot of tables but as a temp stop gap sound manager they are fairly good. The other alternative is to not hire a big room, but many of those smaller business centre meeting style rooms. You can fit 2-3 tables in each one and the noise is multitude times better. (of course this wont service the Epic)


We suffered a bit of this at Paizocon 2014 which was held in a similar cavernous Room in a hotel in Seattle. I actually remember not being able to hear the dm at many points. Before the con we had a few pregames in the meeting rooms that were also booked by the con.. much much better.

Its admirable they are moving to a different Hotel , but Im guessing to a similarly sized cavernous room.

Tyranthraxus said:

Its admirable they are moving to a different Hotel , but Im guessing to a similarly sized cavernous room.

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Oh so much better then that. The D&D eXPerience @ Gen Con (old All Access program) will be in it's own room with 15 tables. The rest of the games will be in their own carpeted (floor, walls, and who knows maybe the ceiling) room with between 50-60 tables (still working out layouts). Nothing but D&D gaming goodness. Should be multiple levels of better this year.

lol.. maybe the Ceiling? Open sky gaming sounds awesome. We used to run a great table of 2e down at the beach on a Picnic table..

Tyranthraxus said:

Look at how big American conventions work though. The aim is to pack as many tables , seat to seat into one large cavernous room. Thats not conducive to good gaming. Its conducive to having to fight for space, to having to raise your voice .. and that not taking into account the gamers amongst us who have mobility issues (ie canes/wheelchairs).

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Honestly, I had zero complaints about the gaming space (altho it of course could have been better) -- I'm used to those unfortunately cavernous gaming halls.

My concern was more of how it was being organized and the sort of people they had running stuff. With a couple notable exceptions (shoutout to Jay Africa), almost all the judges I had were terrible (didn't know the rules, didn't know how the AL rules operated as far as XP, etc.), and Baldman's organizational skills, mustering, etc., were hit-and-miss at best. Location is an unfortunate aspect of the venue you're running at. The quality of people you get to work for you and the ability to manage them, however, were what I am more concerned with. I've played at Baldman events before in smaller conventions before, and had a fine time. I just don't think they were at all prepared to do a Gen-Con sized con by themselves, were overwhelmed by the numbers, had to pull in judges they had no idea of the qualifications of, and so forth, and we'll have to see this year if that's changed any. Baldman stepped up to the plate and owned up to last year's problems, but it's easy to lose trust, and much harder to win it back.

We'll see how this year goes.

Steve_MND said:

I've played at Baldman events before in smaller conventions before, and had a fine time. I just don't think they were at all prepared to do a Gen-Con sized con by themselves

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Just for clarity, BMG (and the same staff) has organized Winter Fantasy, Origins, and Gen Con for more than a decade. If you enjoyed Gen Con two years ago, it was the same people. The only difference was the level of material support that WOTC provided (statues, banners, castle walls, etc...).

wavester said:

Oh so much better then that. The D&D eXPerience @ Gen Con (old All Access program) will be in it's own room with 15 tables. The rest of the games will be in their own carpeted (floor, walls, and who knows maybe the ceiling) room with between 50-60 tables (still working out layouts). Nothing but D&D gaming goodness. Should be multiple levels of better this year.

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Kinda wish you guys were back in the Marriott, but the Hyatt isn't that far of a walk.

--
Pauper