DMs Guild The Warlord posted on DMs Guild

jodyjohnson said:

The new version is bordering on OP in the healing department but I'm open to revision. The Healer could pretty much do nothing but heal between Grant, Rally, and Healing kit's but it would be a losing battle.

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Let's see...let's assume a 5th level Healer Warlord with 18 Int. (Mostly because I love Int focused classes and healing classes, so this is right in my wheelhouse.)

Command Points: 7

Grant Vitality - Once per short rest, grant ally 1d(HD) + 10 HPs. Stronger than the 1d8+6 of a life cleric's 1st level cure wounds, but can't scale if needed like a cleric's.
Rejuvenation - Spend 2 HD to give ally or yourself (HD+Cha)*2 hit points, or gain a Lesser Restoration effect. I can't say I'm wildly a fan of this ability, I don't really like spend HD abilities, but it's a good option for the healer. Not quite as strong as it might be for other subclasses because Healer will probably have Charisma as a tertiary stat.
Rally = 7 times per short rest, heal ally for 1d(HD)+1d4+2+Int+Cha, or just 1d4+2+Int+Cha if it isn't a bonded ally. Ok, this is really, really good. A 5th level cleric can heal for 1d4+2+Wis 9 times per long rest, with a little bit of scaling as a bonus action, and then they're out except for Preserve Life.
Healer's Kit - 1d6+10 once per ally per short rest. Pretty much the Healer feat for free. Obviously a Life Cleric can take this as well, but it gives the Warlord a bit of a boost.

It's an interesting approach. It has more raw healing than the Life Cleric, even assuming the Cleric takes the Healer feat, but it's not as flexible at deploying unnecessary healing resources as the Cleric. You can trade a Rally for a Strike or another command, but nothing as good as spiritual weapon or spirit guardians. It's not as offensively challenged as the Cleric at its baseline, though, because of extra attacks.

I'd probably pare down the healing just a tad...I think there's two major avenues to do so.

1) Drop the baseline of healing on Rally to 1d4, or 1d(HD) if the ally is a bonded ally. Let Healer/Skald still get Tac or Insp bonus on Rally, which keeps them competitive with Life Cleric. The important factor is having a bonus action heal as a baseline, the magnitude of the heal can be lowered a lot and still maintain the important functionality.
2) Skald/Healer/Diplomat might get a few too many Command Points at the beginning. I know it's supposed to balance with the fighting styles/armor/companions the other subclasses get, but it might be a bit too much initial healing. Possible change:

-Command Points are equal to 2+Command bonus as a baseline. Command bonus increases by 1 at levels 7 and 15. (Or maybe 7, 13, 17, depending on how you want to tune it.)
-Diplomat/Skald/Healer can use the Tactical/Inspiration bonus or 2+Command bonus as their Command Point baseline, whichever is higher.

TwoSix said:

Let's see...let's assume a 5th level Healer Warlord with 18 Int. (Mostly because I love Int focused classes and healing classes, so this is right in my wheelhouse.)

Command Points: 7

Grant Vitality - Once per short rest, grant ally 1d(HD) + 10 HPs. Stronger than the 1d8+6 of a life cleric's 1st level cure wounds, but can't scale if needed like a cleric's.
Rejuvenation - Spend 2 HD to give ally or yourself (HD+Cha)*2 hit points, or gain a Lesser Restoration effect. I can't say I'm wildly a fan of this ability, I don't really like spend HD abilities, but it's a good option for the healer. Not quite as strong as it might be for other subclasses because Healer will probably have Charisma as a tertiary stat.

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This is pretty much an emergency big heal - the Warlord's HD limit this per day. This gets more useful with the bonus dice at 7 and 15 because you can use it to parse out measured healing or a Lesser Restoration plus healing.

TwoSix said:

Rally = 7 times per short rest, heal ally for 1d(HD)+1d4+2+Int+Cha, or just 1d4+2+Int+Cha if it isn't a bonded ally. Ok, this is really, really good. A 5th level cleric can heal for 1d4+2+Wis 9 times per long rest, with a little bit of scaling as a bonus action, and then they're out except for Preserve Life.

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The intention was 1d4 normal (like Healing Word) or if a Bonded Ally a HD. Not both - that should be clarified.

TwoSix said:

Healer's Kit - 1d6+10 once per ally per short rest. Pretty much the Healer feat for free. Obviously a Life Cleric can take this as well, but it gives the Warlord a bit of a boost.

It's an interesting approach. It has more raw healing than the Life Cleric, even assuming the Cleric takes the Healer feat, but it's not as flexible at deploying unnecessary healing resources as the Cleric. You can trade a Rally for a Strike or another command, but nothing as good as spiritual weapon or spirit guardians. It's not as offensively challenged as the Cleric at its baseline, though, because of extra attacks.

I'd probably pare down the healing just a tad...I think there's two major avenues to do so.

1) Drop the baseline of healing on Rally to 1d4, or 1d(HD) if the ally is a bonded ally. Let Healer/Skald still get Tac or Insp bonus on Rally, which keeps them competitive with Life Cleric. The important factor is having a bonus action heal as a baseline, the magnitude of the heal can be lowered a lot and still maintain the important functionality.
2) Skald/Healer/Diplomat might get a few too many Command Points at the beginning. I know it's supposed to balance with the fighting styles/armor/companions the other subclasses get, but it might be a bit too much initial healing. Possible change:

-Command Points are equal to 2+Command bonus as a baseline. Command bonus increases by 1 at levels 7 and 15. (Or maybe 7, 13, 17, depending on how you want to tune it.)
-Diplomat/Skald/Healer can use the Tactical/Inspiration bonus or 2+Command bonus as their Command Point baseline, whichever is higher.

Click to expand...

Probably remove the double dip on Rally and switch it back to Temp - Healer replaces the Inspiration with Tactical. List a general only once bonus per ability with the Tactical or Inspiration bonus.

As Temp the Healer is less likely to blow everything on healing and drop some of the Tactical commands instead (pseudo-pseudo bless or increase AC).

The Healer kit healing can pick up the majority of the action healing.

If the Marshal was erring on the side of caution, I tweaked everything to the high side with the Warlord.

jodyjohnson said:

This is pretty much an emergency big heal - the Warlord's HD limit this per day. This gets more useful with the bonus dice at 7 and 15 because you can use it to parse out measured healing or a Lesser Restoration plus healing.



The intention was 1d4 normal (like Healing Word) or if a Bonded Ally a HD. Not both - that should be clarified.


Probably remove the double dip on Rally and switch it back to Temp - Healer replaces the Inspiration with Tactical. List a general only once bonus per ability with the Tactical or Inspiration bonus.

As Temp the Healer is less likely to blow everything on healing and drop some of the Tactical commands instead (pseudo-pseudo bless or increase AC).

The Healer kit healing can pick up the majority of the action healing.

If the Marshal was erring on the side of caution, I tweaked everything to the high side with the Warlord.

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I'll buy that. The temp change makes it much better, and doesn't quite step on the toes of the Life Cleric as much. Would need to make sure it's clarified that Rally can bring back someone who's at 0, even if it's temp HP. I'd argue that bonus action 0 hp restore is a necessary part of any healing class's kit in 5e.

Probably a subclass ability to Restore 1 hp to Rally target if they are at 0, then the Temp stacks on top. Not all the subclasses need it.

I'm open to a lot more discussion. At this point it feels more like a productive UA-style discussion rather than a theoretical wish list.

Although I'm certainly willing to step on the Life Cleric's toes. The subclass is more like the Miniatures Handbook healer that was the super-healer and it got a Unicorn.

jodyjohnson said:

Probably a subclass ability to Restore 1 hp to Rally target if they are at 0, then the Temp stacks on top. Not all the subclasses need it.

I'm open to a lot more discussion. At this point it feels more like a productive UA-style discussion rather than a theoretical wish list.

Although I'm certainly willing to step on the Life Cleric's toes. The subclass is more like the Miniatures Handbook healer that was the super-healer and it got a Unicorn.

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Wait, wait...are you telling me the Healer can get a Unicorn? <swoon>

Elemental Kirin (asian unicorns) are in Beasts of Battle. Probably appropriate around 11th+

They made the regular Unicorn a legendary so that's probably off the table.

Looking at the MHB Healer is what got me going on getting the Asian Kirin into Beasts of Battle. From there the Guardian Lion (Foo Dog) crossed with the MtG lion riders.

jodyjohnson said:

Elemental Kirin (asian unicorns) are in Beasts of Battle. Probably appropriate around 11th+

They made the regular Unicorn a legendary so that's probably off the table.

Looking at the MHB Healer is what got me going on getting the Asian Kirin into Beasts of Battle. From there the Guardian Lion (Foo Dog) crossed with the MtG lion riders.

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Ooh, I like those. Healer Warlord with Mounted Combatant feat would be pretty fun.

It would love to be able to just google-drop images into these documents (well at least the one published on DMs Guild).

Fire Kirin


Now he's angry.

jodyjohnson said:

Probably a subclass ability to Restore 1 hp to Rally target if they are at 0, then the Temp stacks on top. Not all the subclasses need it.

I'm open to a lot more discussion. At this point it feels more like a productive UA-style discussion rather than a theoretical wish list.

Click to expand...

Yea, that Rally idea seems more fitting for the Skald/Healer/Diplomat trio. (They seem like the more "stay in the back" types.) Maybe Chevaliers/Beast Handlers can only use it on their Mounts/ACs.

A few more thoughts:
-I'm not sure about the necessity of gaining a 3rd attack at 13th. I get that it's to keep up with the at-will scaling of other martials at 11th, like Divine Smite and Multiattack, it just feels too much like a fighter clone power. Maybe something like "Whenever you take the Attack action, you get one free Ki/Command point that lasts until the end of your turn."?
-Resuscitation kit. The rules seem to be spread out a bit between the 9th level Warlord ability and the rules in the equipment section. I'm assuming the rules are meant to be cumulative, but I'm not really sure. Maybe the Warlord ability trumps the base rules for the kit? Is the kit only usable by a 9th level Warlord, or can anyone use it? Cumulative rules for Resuscitation:
-Target dead < 1 min.
-Takes 5 minutes to finish. Obviously, the target rule is for when you start the action, not finish it.
-Target must be ally. (I admit I'm unclear about the specific ally rules for 5e.)
-Requires DC20 Intelligence(Medicine) check. (Kudos for using a non-standard ability-skill combination.)
-Target restored to 1 HP after use. Kit is used up after one use.
-Target receives a -4 penalty on attacks,saves,ability checks. This penalty is reduced by 1 every time the target takes a long rest.

TwoSix said:

Yea, that Rally idea seems more fitting for the Skald/Healer/Diplomat trio. (They seem like the more "stay in the back" types.) Maybe Chevaliers/Beast Handlers can only use it on their Mounts/ACs.

A few more thoughts:
-I'm not sure about the necessity of gaining a 3rd attack at 13th. I get that it's to keep up with the at-will scaling of other martials at 11th, like Divine Smite and Multiattack, it just feels too much like a fighter clone power. Maybe something like "Whenever you take the Attack action, you get one free Ki/Command point that lasts until the end of your turn."?
-Resuscitation kit. The rules seem to be spread out a bit between the 9th level Warlord ability and the rules in the equipment section. I'm assuming the rules are meant to be cumulative, but I'm not really sure. Maybe the Warlord ability trumps the base rules for the kit? Is the kit only usable by a 9th level Warlord, or can anyone use it? Cumulative rules for Resuscitation:
-Target dead < 1 min.
-Takes 5 minutes to finish. Obviously, the target rule is for when you start the action, not finish it.
-Target must be ally. (I admit I'm unclear about the specific ally rules for 5e.)
-Requires DC20 Intelligence(Medicine) check. (Kudos for using a non-standard ability-skill combination.)
-Target restored to 1 HP after use. Kit is used up after one use.
-Target receives a -4 penalty on attacks,saves,ability checks. This penalty is reduced by 1 every time the target takes a long rest.

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Anyone can use a Resuscitate Kit - but DC20 is a big risk for a one-shot item. The Warlord can use it without a check at 9th. Essentially CPR.

Effect similar to Revivify but with the Raise Dead rider.


Regarding the Extra attack at 13th - not sure what could replace this since Strike and Opportunistic strike key off it.

However dropping this could free up some powerful Paragon tier abilities to insert here. Maybe a good spot for a missing piece that is needed at the higher levels.

Potentially break it out and insert a powerful subclass ability to help firm up the flavor of the subclasses in Paragon.

For example Chevalier is free mount attack, and Beast Handler free companion attack. Commander is pretty fightery so keep the 3rd attack. Skald maybe a Bardish ability. Healer a big heal or mass heal. Diplomat maybe some sort of crowd control or action denial.