D&D 5E Dwarven Battlerager Build

GrumpyGamer · Apr 7, 2016

Precision Attack is also an amazing maneuver as it allows you to turn those near misses into hits. Depending on how much damage you do it is often the most useful way to use your superiority dice.

the_move · Apr 8, 2016

Riposte...

Colder · Apr 8, 2016

the_move said:
Riposte...

Not so great when you only have one SD.

the_move · Apr 8, 2016

It is practically one additional attack once in a fight provided that the opponent misses you. That can be achieved even by grappling and shoving btw. So how can it be less great than any other maneuver, for which you also have only one d6 for?

Menacing and trip attack is pretty useless for a grappler most of the time. Prone (by shove) already provides, what these two maneuvers do, and he gets advantage on his shove without even the need of being reckless.

Riposte has actually been THE reason to pick up Battle Master. Besides the Battlerager has nothing to fill out his reaction, unlike a high level Berserker or Bear barb.

Colder · Apr 8, 2016

Because, to me, having so few resources incentivizes the reliable answer. You can miss a riposte. You can't miss with any of the other maneuvers. And prone doesn't give disadvantage on ability checks like frightened does.

If the guy really wants something to do with his reactions, it'd be better (and really thematically appropriate, I think) to take the Sentinel feat instead. You get a ton more mileage out of that than a single reaction per short rest.

GrumpyGamer · Apr 8, 2016

the_move said:
Riposte has actually been THE reason to pick up Battle Master. Besides the Battlerager has nothing to fill out his reaction, unlike a high level Berserker or Bear barb.

Precision Attack is the reason to take Battle Master. Riposte, for example, is not as useful as using Precision Attack to allow you to land more of your hard hitting Great Weapon Master attacks. The nice thing about Battle Master is that you get to take more than one ability.

the_move · Apr 9, 2016

A grappled and proned adversary does not normally require precision strike. On his turn he can choose use his action in full to escape from your grapple (due to rage you have advantage on the contesting role), or he can choose to attack you with disadvantage. If he does the first and is successful, at least you have stalled for time and are able to regrapple/reprone him again on your consecutive round. If he failed, he lost a full round.

Now if he choose the latter, he will attack you with disadvantage. And chanced not too bad that he misses with his attack. Riposte will then give you an extra attack on his turn with advantage and an extra d6/d8 damage, which will have a great impact on your damage/round.

So how is Precision Strike more helpful for a grappler?

GrumpyGamer · Apr 9, 2016

the_move said:
A grappled and proned adversary does not normally require precision strike. On his turn he can choose use his action in full to escape from your grapple (due to rage you have advantage on the contesting role), or he can choose to attack you with disadvantage. If he does the first and is successful, at least you have stalled for time and are able to regrapple/reprone him again on your consecutive round. If he failed, he lost a full round.

Now if he choose the latter, he will attack you with disadvantage. And chanced not too bad that he misses with his attack. Riposte will then give you an extra attack on his turn with advantage and an extra d6/d8 damage, which will have a great impact on your damage/round.

So how is Precision Strike more helpful for a grappler?

Precision Strike is more useful when combined with Great Weapon Master for doing damage when you can't grapple. You have a limited number of superiority dice and you are going to want to use them wisely. If you have a grappled creature shoved to the ground and you don't think you are going to have another combat before you can take a short rest than go ahead and use them.

I would remind you of your argument in this thread when you said don't take the Grappler feat, as even though it is useful for ranged party members, the times you can use it are situational. Ultimately the question is are we optimizing the best grappling battlerager or are we optimizing the best battlerager that can also grapple?

the_move · Apr 10, 2016

I suggest you consult the Art of War Fighter guide, to get a view on the battle master maneuvers, since you can't really follow my arguments.

Even if not being able to grapple/prone your adversary, Riposte is still superior in almost every aspect. If used while grappling it will up your damage remarkably, since grapplers are known not to be that much of a damage dealer.

Quote "Riposte.* An extra attack - plus Superiority Die damage - on a reaction is amazing and useful in just about any fight. Obviously competes for other uses of your reaction."

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468964-GUIDE-The-Art-of-War-A-Fighter-Guide#ixzz45PXf5K3r

Colder · Apr 10, 2016

the_move said:
I suggest you consult the Art of War Fighter guide, to get a view on the battle master maneuvers, since you can't really follow my arguments.

That's a bit rude, isn't it? We follow your argument, we just don't agree with it because we think the reality is more nuanced than

Premise: Riposte gives Battle Master Fighters the largest bump to their DPR.
Premise: The Art of War Fighter Guide rates Riposte very highly.
Implied Premise: DPR is the most important part of playing any character.
Conclusion: Riposte is the best maneuver for a character taking the Martial Adept feat.

You'd be right, except that we don't believe the implied premise is true, and the conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the first two premises.

The reason why Riposte is so great for Battle Masters is because they have multiple superiority dice, their dice are larger, and they will typically do more damage per hit (whether because they're using a two-handed weapon or because they're using the Dueling fighting style). The risk of using Riposte is reduced (It's a risk because Riposte can miss) is lessened by having more resources and increasing the benefits (more SD damage and more weapon damage on a hit).

Meanwhile, characters with the Martial Adept feat only have one Superiority die, and it's only a d6. Riposte is not a safe risk to them because of very limited resources and smaller returns. It is better for them to use their single resource on a more reliable maneuver which can, at the very least, give them a guaranteed 1d6 extra damage, and at the most, can deliver an effect that benefits your entire party rather than just yourself.

And that does nothing to mention that the point of being a grappler isn't to do damage, it's to control your enemies. Riposte doesn't help with that at all, but many of the other maneuvers would.

And if you want to get into appeals to authority, the guru of grappling, ktkenshinx, rated Riposte purple in his grappling guide, and both his guide and the Art of War rated Disarming Strike, Menacing Attack, Pushing Attack, and Trip Attack as blue or better.

Riposte is a good maneuver, just not for this kind of character.