How do you fit monks into Occidental campaigns?

drnuncheon · Feb 22, 2002

One could also look at the reasons that monasteries and the martial arts evolved as they did in the Orient, and incorporate elements of that history into your campaign.

For example, most of the traditional "monk weapons" (much like Western polearms) are evolved from farming implements - the nunchaku from rice flails, the sai from some sort of gardening tool, etc). This happened in Okinawa because the Japanese rulers refused to allow the populace to have any weapons - so the people improvised.

In many cases unarmed martial arts were developed by people who weren't allowed to own weapons, because regardless of what Shaw Brothers films might depict, weapons are a heck of a lot better at hurting someone than puncing or kicking them is. Combine that with the concept of monasteries - isolated spiritual communities in remote places, who will often need protection in a dangeous world - and you have a situation ripe for the development/adoption of the monk class.

In one world I worked on, the first monks were humans who were not permitted weapons by their elven overlords. The monks developed the arts diguised as dance and other religious observances, and formed the core of the rebellion that eventually freed their people.

J

Desdichado · Feb 22, 2002

I agree with Psion here: most campaigns (and the D&D campaigns in particular) don't particularly look like Medieval Europe, neither does the monk class look particularly like a zen Oriental monk. Both are so far removed from the historical reality that there's no real conflict between the monk and the setting in a traditional D&D setting.

However, there are settings that can't support a monk, either because they are more like medieval Europe than the standard D&D, or for whatever reason. I made a setting based heavily on Celtic and Germanic folklore that featured a Seelie/Unseelie court of non-humans and the like, and thought that the monk definately had to go, as well as all the monk-like prestige classes. But, if using a homebrew setting, YMMV.

Codragon · Feb 22, 2002

Tonguez said:
The Monk class is based on the idea of the Eastern Shaolin/Zen/Taoist Monk as per all those Wuxia/Golden Harvest movies right?

yet most gamers use Westernish settings

How do you reconcile the two?

- Monks are exotic 'oriental' visitors to the campaign region
- Monks are a integral part of normal society
- Monks are changed to have a more occidental outlook whilst maintaining their core abilities

any ideas?

I think that the Monk class's name should have been "Martial Artist". Think about it. All D&D Monks are skilled martial artists. None of Western Europe's "Monks" (the kind that lived in abbeys, took vows of silence, wore plain brown robes) were martial artists. Since many D&D campaigns strive for an "occidental outlook", this causes confusion. And not even all real-life Oriental Monks were/are skilled Martial artists. Therefore, the Monk class's name is a misleading.

Perhaps the reason they kept the Monk name was to attract old-school gamers to 3E by reviving the old 1E Monk class. I have nothing against the class itself, just the name.

As an aside, I think core D&D is not based on Western Europe or the Middle Ages as much as most people think. But that's a whole other topic...

To answer your question: I would not worry too much about "reconciling" Monks in D&D. As I alluded to above, D&D is not that similar to Western Europe, and even if it was, who says your campaign has to be? Maybe martial artists ARE "Westernish" in your world. Or maybe they are visitors from a far-off land. It's just another campaign decision you have to make, like what mountains the orcs live in or what country borders what.

AFGNCAAP · Feb 22, 2002

Has to agree with the general consensus---it's your world, make what you will of it. You can easily think of a reason for their presence/absence IYC.

The way I resolved the presence of the martial artist monks in my pseudo-European realm is simple---the PHB monks are the result of missionaries who worked their way from the lands of my OA-style empire to this one. And, as it often occurs with language, these monks stayed closer to their roots than those monks in the "homeland"---hence the difference in multiclassng allowances, weapons allowed, & feat/virtual feat selection (the language reference deals with immigration/colonization---the immigrants/colonists, in an effort to retain a connection with their homeland, change little/slower, while the language spoken in the homeland is more prone to change. Hence why Icelandic is closer to Old Norse than any of the modern Scandinavian languages---used to hold true for English-speaking colonists, as well).

The end result---PHB monks vs. OA monks. PHB monks can't multiclass; OA monks can. PHB monks have a smaller weapon list than OA monks. PHB monks gain certain feats at certain levels; OA monks have a little more freedom to choose.

But, it's up to you. If you allow OA classes/races, then the above situation might be an option. If not, then you're free to create your own. Maybe a githzerai monk instituted a monastery on the Prime; maybe it naturally developed on its own; etc.

Furn_Darkside · Feb 22, 2002

drnuncheon said:
This happened in Okinawa because the Japanese rulers refused to allow the populace to have any weapons - so the people improvised.

Salutations,

In my last campeign, I grasped on to the same line- the largest kingdom distrusted the power of the church and forbade anyone of the cloth to wield weapons. This lead to the development of martial arts/monks.

In my current campeign, there is a "far east" like land that monks come from.

If I ever get around to running my psionic campeign, then the monks will be developed by a sect of psi-warriors who believe that as their mind provides all that is needed, should their body provide any less?

Of course, I also go through the same thought process on paladins, rangers, wizards, sorcerers, and bards.

FD

Ruvion · Feb 22, 2002

I would have to agree with the above posters...A D&D campaigns do not equate usually to real world medieval Europe. Although, there may be people playing a polytheistic, magic infested, Middle Age Europe, most campaigns usually do not follow this path IMO. So let the fist-totting, kick-swinging monks rule!

Aaron L · Feb 22, 2002

In my campaign, monks come from the same Greco-Romanesque culture as psions and psychic warriors, and are recognized as another psionic discipline.

Wolf72 · Feb 22, 2002

GreyHawk

the Empire that monks were a part of was destroyed and the survivors moved/immigrated. Along with them they brought their fighting styles and preferences.

I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find something in today's society that doesn't seem to fit in all the time, but is present anyway and seems to have just placed itself there.

Enforcer · Feb 22, 2002

I don't use monks in my homebrew campaign, but if I wanted the eastern and western continents to have some contact, I'd probably introduce one.

I think they're easier to introduce if you have a god like Ilmater from the Forgotten Realms, who might teach his followers the martial arts.

As far as having a western brawler class goes, I think a fighter with unarmed feats works pretty well.

S'mon · Feb 22, 2002

The Bloodguard in the Thomas Covenant books by Stephen Donaldson are a good example of Monk-types integrated into a quasi-medieval setting, although AIR the Bloodguard are immortal & sterile as a result of an oath.

In my core campaign Monks are either exotic visitors or practitioners of an exotic (lawful) religious philosophy given to both introspection and physical perfection. The most odd ones are probably my Christian Gnostic Monk martial artists.

Monks fit poorly into some Lawful religions - eg Hextor & Heironeus in Greyhawk shouldn't really have Monk-class followers IMO. The Lawful Suel & Bakluni deities certainly should.