DMs Guild Can You Fund A DMs Guild Product On Kickstarter?

Back in January, WotC's Mike Mearls was asked that question; he replied "Yes, but be sure to look at the terms of use for the DM's Guild to make sure you understand how they apply to your product." It seems that OneBookShelf (the company which runs DMs Guild for WotC) has now clarified this statement to make it clear that while you can theoretically fund a product via Kickstarter, you can't distribute it via that platform.
Back in January, WotC's Mike Mearls was asked that question; he replied "Yes, but be sure to look at the terms of use for the DM's Guild to make sure you understand how they apply to your product." It seems that OneBookShelf (the company which runs DMs Guild for WotC) has now clarified this statement to make it clear that while you can theoretically fund a product via Kickstarter, you can't distribute it via that platform.


DMsGuild-Logo.png



DLI Media, which launched a Kickstarter for an adventure trilogy this week, was told by OBS' Director of Publishing and Marketing:

Someone linked us to your Kickstarter and I wanted to touch base about a few things. DMsGuild creators cannot release titles on both DMsGuild and DriveThruRPG and they cannot use Kickstarter to "sell" their DMsGuild publications.

The wording on your Kickstarter makes me think this is more of an OGL type product, which is great because we have a ton of awesome 5e OGL content on DriveThruRPG and you are already set up to sell there.

You would only need to remove the DMsGuild elements (logos and text) from your Kickstarter page and continue on with your plans to sell on and fulfill your project via DriveThruRPG.com.


The email was followed up with further clarification:


The issue is you are in violation of the license on DMsGuild with your Kickstarter. All DMsGuild creations must remain exclusive to that storefront. They cannot be sold on DriveThruRPG, other storefronts, nor via Kickstarter tiers.

While it is true someone could run a Kickstarter to fund artwork or development of a DMsGuild title, they cannot offer tiers that provide backers copies of the title product. So, I imagine tiers would have to be "special thanks" or "game with the designer at Gen Con" or "your likeness used as one of the NPCs" all backers would still have to buy the book on DMsGuild once it launched as the publisher wouldn't be able to sell them a copy via crowdfunding.


Which is pretty much what's been said all along. No big surprises. It seems that it's a simple problem with a simple solution, though: allow publishers on DMsG to send complimentary products from that platform.


The DMsGuild license specifically agreed to by content creators states that all DMG titles are exclusive to the DMsGuild.com storefront. Putting the PDF on Kickstarter violates that exclusivity. You are specifically listing your title (understanding that it isn't officially released yet) on another site and not on DMsGuild. It wouldn't be available on DMsGuild until after you've collected funds and finished the project.

DMsGuild creators do not currently have the tool set to upload PoD files themselves.

It does sound like making adjustments and releasing this title on DriveThruRPG as a 5e OGL product would work better for your overall setup.


So, right now, Kickstarter isn't much use for DMsG products. But it sounds like some minor technical changes could solve that. In the meantime, if you want to create a 5E product and fund it via Kickstarter, the best bet is to produce an OGL product instead, like many companies are already doing.

So, no big news or anything, but a clarification that some folks might find useful before going ahead with their Kickstarters!

In other news, both Margaret Weis Productions Cortex+, and Mongoose Publishing Traveller, are the latest OBS DMsG-style third-party stores to open up, with Monte Cook Games' Cypher System store opening very soon. Seems to be a popular model! OBS refers to these as "Community Content Programs".
 

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I'm not sure I'm the best person to write such a post - there are much better people out there who have truly mastered the art of Kickstarter. Monte Cook even wrote a book about it; definitely worth a read.

I'd love to read that - but couldn't find it on his website or Amazon. What was it called?
 

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surfarcher

First Post
My enquiries at DTRPG got put through to Chris Tang at OBS. CT is a really helpful guy and even gave permission to quote his responses here. I was going to post excerpts, but honestly two of his replies, in particular, really do deserve to be quoted in full.

So with minimal modification, here we go...

From: Chris Tang
Subject: DMs Guild and Patreon

Hello,

Thank you for reaching out to us to clarify policies before publishing material since you have a somewhat unique situation.

Let’s discuss first whether you can post modules or other titles on our site with prior release. If you have released these titles on your own website or personal distribution then that is not a conflict with any of our policies. In fact, even if you check that something is “exclusive” with DriveThruRPG you are still allowed to distribute it through your own website. Patreon, in this case, would just be how you’re getting paid for it and would not count as a distributor. So, after delivering to your patrons if you would like to distribute those documents on DM’s Guild or DriveThruRPG you would be more than welcome to do so for any price or pay-what-you-want at your discretion.

That all being said, let’s talk about what is and is not allowed on those sites for a moment. DriveThruRPG supports documents published under the OGL and DM’s Guild has it’s own set of rules. The below link has a full copy of the OGL and outlines the difference between DM’s Guild and OGL.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/systems-reference-document-srd

I highly recommend that you read through both of those policies before publishing anything. For instance, on DM’s Guild you can use the official settings of Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, and generic setting. Both settings do not allow other official settings such as Dark Sun or Spelljammer. If you want to publish in your own original setting that is not generic you may do so under the OGL and DriveThruRPG but not on DM’s Guild. I’m not sure specifically what kind of products you plan on making but bear all of this and the full content of the policies in mind.

Part of why I’ve talked about settings here is that I want to make sure that when you set up Patreon that you don’t run afoul of some problems we’ve seen some others run into. For instance, if you have a level of “back me at $5 per month and you get a module once a year” then you are functionally selling a module. Just promising a module? That’s fine. Under the OGL you can self-publish so long as you follow the OGL rules. Promise people a Forgotten Realms module for $5 per month? Can’t do that. At that point you are selling Forgotten Realms material outside of DM’s Guild. What about if all of your titles and products will be in your own original world? “$5 a month and you get one module per year in the World of Original”. Once again, that is fine because that 100% allowed under the OGL. However, when you go to publish them make sure you do so under DriveThruRPG rather than DM?s Guild for the above stated reasons.

I hope this helps you out and I look forward to seeing the products you have to share. Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thank you,

--
Chris Tang
Community Content Manager

From: Chris Tang
Subject: Re: DMs Guild and Patreon

Hello,

You have several questions here so I'm going to do my best to break it down.

Nature of your Products
Traps and stuff? Sounds fine to me. Make sure you categorize it as generic setting.

Kickstarter vs. Patreon
When you promise something on a Kickstarter you are explicitly selling a specific product. "Back at the $20 level and you get The Book of Feats" for example. This is fine for material that you have the legal authority to sell such as products authorized under the OGL. Where people get into trouble on Kickstarter (as pointed out in the thread you linked) is when they promise things that they can't sell. People often do not read the OGL carefully and just make a product they are inspired by. Patreon is different because you are not necessarily promising a specific product and so, if phrased properly, you may be promising to essentially sell something but it needs to be within the realms of what you can sell. So, you could say on Patreon, "Backers who give me $5 a month get something I write once a year" and not be promising anything illegal. You could not say "I will give you something I write set in the Forgotten Realms" because then you are selling something that you can only do on DM's Guild.

Distribution on DMs Guild Exclusively
The rules as written do not prevent personal distribution. This is for a variety of reasons but you can imagine how hard it would be to enforce. Let's say there was no Patreon and you had a product on DM's Guild. You might send a copy to a friend across the country to use in your email. You might privately send a copy to someone so that they can review the product. DM's Guild does not consider that a violation. What would be a violation would be putting that product elsewhere such as Amazon or even DrivethruRPG.

Pricing
If you want to release something as free or pay what you want that is up to you. Giving gift copies is also up to you. Looking at your options for backers as laid out it generally looks good but phrasing on your Patreon is important. If your content could be sold under the OGL OR DMs Guild then you probably are much more in the clear.

Hope this answers all your questions.

Thanks,

As mentioned before my focus is Patreon, but there's clear context there for Kickstarter.

And Chris - thanks again mate! Greatly appreciated!
 



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